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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Secretly filmed by DH - Ok to want space?

459 replies

papercoversrock · 12/08/2018 04:05

Ok. Briefly as I can.

Week-long family event (DH's family) a good drive and ferry journey away. So DH, DS and myself travelled down and made a holiday out of it.

5 days into a 12-day-long stay, I discover that my DH filmed us having sex on his cameraphone the night before. It's around 3am and he's fast asleep. I did not know about or consent to the video. I feel shocked and embarrassed and hurt and furious. First time anything like this has happened to my knowledge.

In the morning, I confront DH about it. He leaves the room without a word, then comes back 5 mins later and apologises. He finds apologising hard, so I am touched by his apology, even though he does it in the manner of a 12-year-old being forced by the teacher to say sorry. Then we very quickly have to get ready to go to a family thing.
We then have 7 more days of enforced DH family fun, which I completely go along with, in order not to embarrass my husband or myself, or spoil things for DS. But DH is aware I want to take some distance for a while once we get home.

However, once home, I suggest a week apart from each other and DH's claws come out...

“A whole week? A week??!” “That's not right.” “What am I meant to do for a week?” “Well you can go but you're not taking DS.” And so on.

Am I being unreasonable? Does DH have a point here? I feel like he's lucky I went along to all the family things in the first place and should just say “thank you" and "take all the time you need."

Instead he gives the impression I'm the one being horrible and he's just putting up with my crazy shit.

I just want a week to clear my head.

All thoughts welcome. I know this is AIBU so am prepared to be set straight :)

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 17/08/2018 07:37

I don't think a list of conditions would fix this for me. He'll just see it as punishment for being naughty, I'm still not convinced he thinks he did anything that wrong. Unfortunately he's turned on the charm and you're falling for it. If you give him a list like this then I don't for one minute think the moment he won't give you the remote control that you'll file for divorce. He'll stick to it, ish, for a couple of months, then be back to the bad old days.

Forgiving him will just mean that eventually he'll do it or worse again. Don't be weak.

RandomMess · 17/08/2018 08:02

I have to agree that your list is shocking, all you are asking of him is to be a parent and partner doing the minimum...

It does seem you are far more worn down and railroaded than you realise and he wants his domestic appliance back!

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 17/08/2018 08:06

I think you already know the answer. What happy marriage is based on a visit to the divorce lawyer. Besides it’s not enforceable.

Your list makes me incredibly sad. They’re all things that should be happening anyway in a loving caring relationship. When you say you get to come home and lie down and criticise the house etc I guess this is what he does?

It feels to me like you’ve been so browbeaten into accepting shit your bar is now set incredibly low.

Do you trust him? Are you happy? If your dc was in a relationship like the one you’ve described what would you say?

Sorry you’re going through this. But the more I hear of him the more of a dick he sounds. And that’s me censoring my language.

trojanpony · 17/08/2018 08:10

Why do you want to be the school marm/the harridan/the nag “making him pay”???
it’s not a viable long term solution. He’ll get bored in 3 weeks at which point you’ll be told to get over it and you will because time will have passed and you won’t want to end your relationship over an unwashed bowl in the sink.

your “conditions” are quite depressing Sad
is he actually unable to work out how to not treat you like crap on his own???
Do you actually need to write a list and spell it out?

I also firmly believe his “heart felt” apology was utter bullshit - he sounds chillingly lacking in empathy. The more you write the more I think you should get a divorce.

Re: his heartfelt plea and apology
I remember as a child my father wanted my aunt to do something (he had behaved terribly and she’d had enough and they were fighting). Mid-stream of abuse/excuses he randomly burst into tears like a broken man. He fell to the floor, said he couldn’t do “it” anymore, life was too much/too hard, sobbed liked a child and then there was some tale from their childhood thrown in for good measure.
I was in the corner fucking terrified and thought he was having a nervous breakdown Confused
within 5 mins she backed down and went off to fulfil his request.
The moment she left he calmly got up, wiped his face, picked up he tea, and went back to reading the paper as if absolutely nothing had happened.
I saw him do this a few times in my life and realised that he was just incredibly good at getting his needs met - in his mind everyone acted only as function to serve his needs. He just needed to find the right password/ code to ge them to do what he wanted (threats, anger, tears whatever...)
I say this as his “favourite child” who he “loved” best. Confused

My “conditions” would be agreeing to a fair (greater than 50/50) settlement of assets without the need for a lawyer and not being a dick about the divorce so you could coparent amicably.
Hint: he won’t do this and you will need a lawyer.

MeyMary · 17/08/2018 08:20

My “conditions” would be agreeing to a fair (greater than 50/50) settlement of assets without the need for a lawyer and not being a dick about the divorce so you could coparent amicably.
Hint: he won’t do this and you will need a lawyer.

Yes, I agree 100%

I personally wouldn't just "casually" agree with advice like this because I really do see marriage as a meaningful and holy institution.

But what he did was incredibly messed up, he crossed incredibly important boundaries for sexual reasons. (His subsequent behaviour may be even worse...)

And the list of your demands is heartbreaking! So many of these things are just normal.

Arrange our settlement now

Maybe? At least you'd be in a position to get out ASAP. Which is something you need Imo.

Is this possible in the UK? Please get your ducks in a row.

I personally wouldn't trust your husband...

trojanpony · 17/08/2018 08:32

MeyMary
I’m glad you pointed that out actually.
I realise people can be quick to say “LTB” so maybe it read as casual but I intended it to be serious advice. I take marriage vows very seriously but what he has done is incredibly messed up, a huge breach of trust and is part of a bigger picture of bad behaviour.

His response to you saying you want to proceed with divorce will tell you an awful lot about him

I also agree from this point forward you should not trust your husband. At all.

pickingdaisies · 17/08/2018 08:38

Oh dear. If your list is a reflection of your marriage, then your son has never seen a strong healthy relationship. And what are these "family events" that you have to attend? Paper, you've got your thinking space, please use it to consider the real state of your marriage, before you worry about your terms and conditions. He'd only follow them for about a fortnight anyway once he had you back in your place.

RSAcre · 17/08/2018 08:39

"I was honest as hell, and more assertive than I've ever been in my life."

Hello Paper
Have been lurking as sign-in issues have taken a few days to sort out ... but this thread, & your predicament, have been absorbing a LOT of my thoughts this week.

Firstly - WELL DONE you have been so stalwart & brave. It is astonishingly difficult to 'own up to yourself' how very badly wrongly you have been treated, I understand all the reasons women like to 'minimise' abuse by partners, especially when financially/emotionally dependent on said partner.

Secondly - am so glad you felt the power of your own strength when you were assertive with him. But - PLEASE forgive my bluntness - no matter HOW good that felt (& I want you to KEEP feeling it!) - no matter HOW strong your statements to him ...
I am so sorry about this but that discussion was on HIS terms - because you went back on your resolution of 'no contact for a week'. I CANNOT SAY THIS STRONGLY ENOUGH - your DH is probably a Narcissist, (& if not, a selfish controlling twat, which is plenty to be going on with ...) & will say anything, agree to anything, to get you back on-side.
3) Once you are back on-side, he will feel back in control again, & whatever you have agreed to, no matter how powerful your conditions or however much you are feeling assertive & ready to deal with him on equal terms - he will begin his slow drip drip drip process of undermining you, ignoring your wishes, & then starting to make you feel as if YOU are the one who is wrong/unreasonable/has too high expectations.
4) Normal people do not need a set of conditions imposed upon them in order to conduct themselves as respectful adults. Please, please, think this through.
5) I absolutely understand how good it feels to be assertive & listened to. I have been where you are now with my own Narc. ex.
When things got to a pitch I could become super-assertive, Ex would appear to listen. He wasn't. He was simply hearing, & marking time until he could start gaslighting again.
6) Please, please, don't feel insulted or belittled by this point. I am aching for the distress, embarrassment & betrayal you have suffered at this arsehole's hands.
May I politely ask you to stop & think about something now? - it's this:

You have just experienced how good it feel to be the one calling the shots. To actually be in control & assert your own will. Right now - this is a GOOD thing. However, because of the dynamics of living with a Narc ... it won't last.
Sooner or later (& it will be sooner, sorry my dear) - you will find yourself in a see-saw of you being assertive, then him wrestling control back from you.
He has 'normalised' his disgusting lack of respect for you for so long that it is no wonder that your present belief that he is listening to you is so heady.
But NORMAL relationship are based on equal respect, & power sharing. I can only hope I am explaining this clearly, & apologise if I cannot articulate it well enough -
He is highly unlikely to suddenly start respecting you
You cannot change him
You are quite naturally experiencing the heady delight & relief of being listened to & taken account of.
THAT WILL NOT LAST.
You will have to do it again, & again, & again, while he lapses, sulks, needs the basic courtesies of adult life spelled out to him again & again ...
so that instead of an emotionally balanced, mutually giving relationship, the only way you can get your needs heard & your wishes respected will be by being incredibly, wearingly, assertive - forever.
He is unlikely to 'share power' with you, meaning that instead of a level emotional balance, one of you will always have to be 'on top' i.e. at the top of the seesaw before it swings back again by either him reverting to his usual disrespectful selfish self ... or you having to summon up yet another reserve of super-assertiveness, merely to get him treating you with any degree of courtesy.
Normal people do not need to enter into this seesaw power wrestle.
Because normal people already have a sense of balance, & have enough common courtesy to adjust the seesaw without needing assertive instruction. Emotionally healthy people pro-actively ensure that the seesaw is generally somewhere near horizontal between you both.

btw - you come across as mature, reasonable, normal, accommodating & lovely! None of the damn screed I have typed above has been designed to hurt you. But you could be in for a whole new world of pain if you take your sneaky bastard's 'contrition' at face value. I suspect he is going to need to punish you for standing up for yourself.

This isn't about me - but oh boy have I been there. It became life threatening, & I learned some horribly uncomfortable lessons. If the above has come over too strongly, (possibly rudely, or patronisingly, which I promise I do not mean it to) it is because I am deeply concerned about your present dynamic.
Please feel absolutely free to PM me with any interrogation you might wish to give about why I disagree with your present feeling that you are holding the reins now!

  • or simply to ask for emotional support from someone who has been there & has a LOT of experience & professional support in the arena of coercive control, dealing with a Narc. partner - & the steps that can be taken to regain emotional freedom.

Very good luck. Keep your hard head on. Am travelling most of this w/e but am keeping eyes open for your updates. Stay safe xx

imnotreally · 17/08/2018 08:44

@RSAcre is spot on. I had the same thoughts in my head but couldn't articulate them. But I agree with everything said.

RandomMess · 17/08/2018 08:49

I agree with RSAcre too, it's so clear now she's spelt it out.

How dare you railroad you into talking etc he has zero respect for you.

MeyMary · 17/08/2018 08:51

@trojanpony

I’m glad you pointed that out actually.
I realise people can be quick to say “LTB” so maybe it read as casual but I intended it to be serious advice. I take marriage vows very seriously but what he has done is incredibly messed up, a huge breach of trust and is part of a bigger picture of bad behaviour.

I agree. I'm not just saying LTB. I'm honestly concerned. The OP's demands, his behaviour... It seems like a genuinely unhealthy marriage.

I also agree from this point forward you should not trust your husband. At all.

Yes. He may agree to get back together. He may find that a marriage with a wife who happens to have a backbone doesn't agree with him... He may decide to get a divorce and screw you financially.
Or terrorise you (with intimate videos?). Or find new ways of squashing that assertiveness.

I really believe that you, @papercoversrock, need to keep yourself safe. Financially and mentally.

Finances are probably the first step / will be what gives you options. So please make sure you're prepared for everything, know your legal rights etc...

WhoWants2Know · 17/08/2018 08:51

Op, if you go back to him, how do you feel about sex with him?

Bouledeneige · 17/08/2018 09:08

Excellent advice RSAcre. I couldn't agree more.

I too have been there. You can never win with a Narc.

The thrill of being heard and the heady joy of being in control shouldn't be temporary. It should be yours every day as of right.

Divorced and single with two lovely nearly grown up DC - I have it. Every day. I am the Queen of my Castle.

trojanpony · 17/08/2018 09:38

RSAcre post eloquently outlines what currently happening.
Very insightful.

Saffy60 · 17/08/2018 10:06

RSAcre is spot on all the red flags of a narcissist. I have just got rid of one myself.

You get gradually chipped away and don't realise how much you are giving...giving up.

Listen to your gut instinct now you have time out of it all to breathe and hear it...

At this point a narcissist will do/say anything to hoover you back in as you will then be back in their life to do their bidding and next time he will cover better and it will be harder to extricate your self and you will need to...

TeddybearBaby · 17/08/2018 11:01

I’m thinking don’t rush this. I feel like you’re feeling good at the moment, in control, powerful, assertive and it’s a great feeling isn’t it?! Take your time now. Think about that ‘great’ relationship that you wanted to show your son - now you want it for yourself too for REAL.......

Another poster mentioned going back to work, is that what you want? It wasn’t what I wanted. I wanted to look after my babies but STILL be seen as an equal (obviously) - still giving just as much to family just not financially. But in ways that cannot even be quantified as far as I’m concerned ☺️.

Anyway think about what you want, maybe have some counselling to help and keep this empowerment going.

GOOD LUCK!!!!! 😘

arranfan · 17/08/2018 11:06

Add me to the people recommending RSAcre's very thoughtful analysis of the relationship dynamics at play here.

MeyMary · 17/08/2018 11:15

Add me to the people recommending RSAcre's very thoughtful analysis of the relationship dynamics at play here.

Me too. good luck OP :)

TeddybearBaby · 17/08/2018 11:21

I think this has to be your story now paper. No one knows what the future holds. I won’t make huge judgements about your DH from a few paragraphs on a forum like this. You know the whole person.

So I think trust your judgement and your instinct and get yourself into a position mentally where you are treated how you deserve always.

Be happy!!

Gabilan · 17/08/2018 15:46

I am so sorry about this but that discussion was on HIS terms - because you went back on your resolution of 'no contact for a week'.

OP please print out and keep RSAcre's post. This point really stood out for me. However empowered you felt, you were negotiating on his terms. Don't get me wrong, I think you did brilliantly to stand up to him (not meant patronisingly, sorry if it sounds that way).

I just read your demands and think "are you happy?" Look at the parts where you're thinking of swapping roles. Do you think your DH would put up with that? And if he wouldn't, why the hell should you put up with your allotted role. It sounds more like a negotiation with an obstructive foreign power than a plan for a marriage. Sorry OP. It just sounds so joyless.

bellinisurge · 17/08/2018 16:25

No one lives with "A List". Give people a litany of rules and they will resent you while breaking them.
There's an unspoken rule that you don't film people having sex without their consent. Do you need to write this and other rules down?

papercoversrock · 17/08/2018 16:36

I can’t tell you how amazing it feels to be able to share this anonymously, and to get such an overwhelming amount of support. I do appreciate all of your responses. I normally would be apologising for going on about it, but I know that anyone who wants to can just ignore. It’s very freeing.

RSAcre: Thank you so much for your post and your insight. I did go back on the one week space. But to be fair I can’t blame him for that. He said “I don’t know if you want to say anything, or want me to say anything” and I genuinely, genuinely did. So I just went for it. I regret it, but he didn't make me.

I don’t feel at all insulted or belittled or upset by your words. You haven’t said anything I haven’t wondered about myself, so if anything, your post is an affirmation. The problem is, this whole event has put such a massive question mark in my own mind on my own ability to judge people and situations, that in an objective sense I can see and agree with what you’re saying, but there’s a simultaneous “Yes, but” conversation going on in my head that contradicts all of it and I don’t know which of those conversations is true... I’m not sure if that makes any sense, reading it back!

You might look at it this way: I am an innate people-pleaser. It’s not a good trait. I seem superficially very “nice,” but sometimes I’m being nice because I don’t know how to say “no.” Sometimes I’m being nice because I’ve instinctively weighed it up and you’ll probably be ever so slightly, and very briefly, pissed off if I say no, and I’d find that genuinely harder to deal with than doing whatever you want in the first place.
And that’s with everybody, not just my husband, and it’s my whole entire life, long before he came along.

If life was a pub, I’d be the type of person who says “Here, let me get these in” and if you say “No no, it’s my turn” and we dance the merry dance of who gets to pay for the drinks, then all is well with the world. If on the other hand, you say, “Ok, if you’re offering” when in fact it’s your turn, I then stand seething at the bar: “How bloody rude. Why did I even offer?” But I still get you your drink. Then if, after a few rounds I say “I think I’ve paid for a few too many rounds” and you say “No I don’t think so,” well then I’m absolutely fuming at the bar, but still I continue to get the rounds in.

I can see the ridiculousness in my behaviour, but find it hard to change, and actually I’m not sure I want to change. I just want to surround myself with people who are queuing up to have a fight about whose turn it is to pay.

This doesn’t excuse my husband’s behaviour and it doesn’t mean he isn’t a self-serving, potentially violent narcissist. But then again, maybe for the most part he just said "yes" to a few too many free drinks, because I was offering.

That's why this sex video is such a gamechanger: I wasn't offering.

I’ve watched a friend go back and forth to a massively psychologically abusive partner. I’ve read the Bancroft book. I’ve (thanks to a post on this thread) read the Freedom Programme book. I am asking myself all of those questions.

I’m just not sure what to think.

It feels entirely possible that I’ve done too much, and demanded too little from DH until I felt resentful, then complained about it in a kind of unhelpful way, then he’s reacted in his own shitty way, not to the situation at hand but to my own tone of self-inflicted martyrdom, and dug his heels in. And now, because I’ve heard about abusive men, I’m kind of convincing myself that he is one.

From day one, I said I wanted to lead the conversation and have final say in parenting decisions. He agreed without hesitation and has kept his word without exception. I want to do on-demand breastfeeding? He wants that too. I want a barefoot baby? So does he, and when some family members make snide comments, he supports me. I want to try controlled crying? Let’s try it then. I don't feel comfortable with it after all? Let's stop then. It's me doing most of the graft, but he does contribute somewhat and he's totally in agreement with pretty much any parenting decision I make.

If he really wanted to control me and hit me where it hurts, he could have gone for the jugular. He could have joked to friends “I earn it, she spends it.” He could have scrutinised the credit card bill and quizzed me about what this or that payment was for. He has never questioned me about a single penny that I have spent, and when I have been upset about my lack of monetary value, he has bolstered me and told me what I am doing right now is worth so much more. (By the way, I had grown to hate my job, love being at home with my little boy, and am now hoping to change career direction when time permits.)

It feels entirely possible that DH is, in fact, a deep-down quite nice man with an inexcusably shit side that he is genuinely prepared to work on.

It feels possible that this is a cathartic moment for both of us, and that we can move forward from this.

It also feels entirely possible that I’m deluding myself into staying in a relationship with someone who could potentially ruin me.

I have no gut instinct.

I know I need more time, and I agree that I could get a lot out of counselling. There’s other equally big stuff going on in other areas of life that I won’t go into, and it’s a lot to deal with all at once. So yeah, counselling.

So DH is off away to work for a couple of weeks soon, and has promised to leave me completely alone during that time, and I WILL hold him to it.

I’m going to take a bit of time off from thinking about it soon, too, and reconnect with the people and parts of life I feel sure about.

Thanks again. X

OP posts:
TeddybearBaby · 17/08/2018 16:54

Good luck and sending you a lot of love!!

FYI NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) is diagnosed by a psychiatrist and there is therapy available and medication I THINK, I’m not 100% sure tbh.

If he does have this disorder all is not lost if he is willing to work on it.

Again good luck 😘

papercoversrock · 17/08/2018 16:59

Thanks, teddy

OP posts:
delphguelph · 17/08/2018 17:05

Would be curtains for me I'm afraid

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