This wasn't flirting... help I need some perspective

[peoniepants]

I’m at my wits end and feeling desperate.

My husband is acting like a right fucker towards me.

I need some perspective.

Whole family at family themed place yesterday - families there and my husband too. My daughter starts playing with a younger child. I got chatting to the Dad whilst they were playing. He was nice enough - but not attractive and not my type, just a nice bloke. I didn’t fancy him and was chatting to him whilst waiting for my daughter to finish playing with his kid.

My husband is in the vicinity but doesn’t come over. Afterwards he kicks off. Apparently he was listening to our conversation out of sight and I was flirting and acting like a whore (which is bollocks! I know myself!). Also he says I was talking to this guy for far too long. He has massively overreacted and stormed out this morning for the whole day leaving me with no car and two kids upset and worrying where daddy is. I’ve just tried to talk to him again but he has got it fixed in his head that I was flirting and disrespecting him by doing it right in front of him. I won’t back down. I’m not going to ‘admit’ to something I haven’t done.

He’s really angry and has escalated massively and he has thrown my out of the bedroom (for 2 nights now) , acting like a man child and the kids know something is very wrong. He has form with doing this kind of shit.

I’ve told him that the kids are upset and we need to discuss it rationally but he doesn’t seem to care about that. Says he’s going out all day tomorrow as well.

I am so tired of his behaviour. He does this every time I ‘upset’ him. It’s so frustrating.

Also it’s my sons birthday next week and I already think he’s going to ruin it but either being in a huge mood or just storming off for the day. I don’t think I could forgive that.

Such a fucking child.

Why do they do that?

I'm going to say something, please stop and really think about it.

You are never going to understand why he does this. Not really. No matter how far you bend backwards trying to understand him.

You are certainly never going to get him to understand you, or to behave like a decent human being.

He's acting like this because he's arsehole, he's a jealous man.

This will escalate. He is dangerous.

One of the reasons you won't understand him is because you are a decent human being. You are trying to apply the way your mind works to his. But it doesn't work, because his mind doesn't work like yours, and never will.

And the longer you stay with him, the more your children internalise the message that men treat women like shit and women are meant to put up with it.

Please, give up on the futile game of trying to work him out. He treats you like shit. That's all you need to know. There is no excuse. Stop thinking about him and start thinking about yourself and your DC, and get the hell out of there.

What usually sends us out the door, or prompts us to finally give him the boot is when we realize what the abusive behavior they are witnessing is teaching our children.

Stop fucking up the kids childhood by staying with this idiot. You are writing him a letter to sort this out later?!? He knows what he is doing and it is getting worse. The only choice he should get is to snap out of it now and never do it again. The poor kids... they are living in a terrible atmosphere and you might be scarring their idea of relationships for life. You need to leave him!

He sounds a bit guilty to me, however we don't know that.

Please don't cry, you've done nothing wrong. Be firm with him and if that doesn't work, suggest he moves out.

He knows you weren't flirting.

My ex blacked my eye once after a bloke said hello to me in a nightclub. This was someone I just knew in passing.
He said I was a whore and the bigger slag in our town then grabbed me by the neck of my pajamas and hit me. Hardly spoke to me for the next few days until I apologized.

This was after years of walking on egg shells. The good times were great but the bad were awful. It took me about another 2 years to leave, over something relatively insignificant really but I'd just got to the end of my tolerance.

What an absolutely toxic environment to raise children, do you want them to think this sort of thing is normal?

I'm sorry OP but you have to leave this man. he's not a man child he's a vile possessive bully and the sooner you and DCs are out of there, the better. I really do urge you to leave him, he's not being a good role model.

I could cry for the kids right now. They don't deserve this shit

No they don't so don't expose them to it.
Don't kid yourself that they don't understand, don't hear, don't see therefore it's not affecting them. It is.
You are teaching them that this is normal behaviour. This is how a normal relationship operates.
Would you be happy for your children to seek this out for themselves because, after all, it IS their 'normal? If not, stop and protect them.

You are never going to understand why he does this. Not really. No matter how far you bend backwards trying to understand him.

This x10000. I've been involved with someone with narc tendencies and I wish I'd realised this sooner. You can't rationally figure out why someone acts in a certain way when their reactions aren't rational to start with.

but I'm a huge believer in making marriages work (especially with kids in the picture), and would really recommend you approach specific marriage counselling

I too believe in making marriages work, but I more strongly believe in the right not to be abused in marriage. The OP has described incredibly abusive, controlling behaviour on the part of her DH, the very last thing I’d be doing is marriage counselling - which isn’t recommended where the relationship is abusive.

I agree with others that separating while he works through his issues might be worth looking at. You can’t be walking on egg shells all of the time and not can your kids.

What would happen if you told him to go the sofa, OP? Why does it have to be you who leaves the bed?

When people get angry and storm out of the house over something minor like this, it can be a way to justify going away to do something unreasonable that they want to do (eg going to the pub if they have an alcohol addiction). Do you know what your husband goes out to do?

If you want what's best for your kids then you need to divorce him. He won't change.

Please read what FrayedHem said. It is massively damaging to be a child in this situation. Your children need saving from this frightening and deeply disturbing situation. You are the only rational person in this marriage and it falls to you. It is deeply damaging to have a screwed up parent and you don’t get fixed by having a few sessions of counselling. I know this having been through years of intense and very good therapy and I still have my insecurities. I imagine this is not what you would want as a parent.

Your husband really doesn’t know what is normal. The time for him to learn this was before you had children. He didn’t. The goal now is to minimise the damage to your children and you and him are toxic together. Perhaps it is confusing for me to say that you are toxic together and what I’m saying is that if you don’t play the game there is no game for him to play. And it would appear the only way not to play the game is not to be together. You are set up to lose each and every time. Because there are no rules. You cannot sit there and say if I do or don’t do x, y and z everything will be fine. But it won’t. Because next time it will be something completely different. And if you’re confused, imagine how a child feels.

He’s getting a sick pleasure of being in control simply because as a child he wasn’t. This isn’t your responsibility and it isn’t your job to fix it or fix him. Your job is to ensure you give your children the best start in life, to give them the best opportunity to be well rounded adults. It is also your job to look after you and your emotional well being both for yourself and for your children. You cannot save him and you should not be trying.

Stop responding to this man’s attempts to engage you in nasty battles and arguments that give him space to humiliate and abuse you and cause your children such distress.

This is attention seeking behaviour designed to keep you in a fearful state - he’s enjoying every moment and doesn’t care at all that he’s causing your kids to be upset.

You said he’s planning to go out all day again today, let him go and tell him you think it’s a good idea that he goes as he’s being completely irrational and to not to come back until he can behave like a normal human being.

I should add. I’ve seen on threads like these people recommend a book, which is supposed to be inciteful. “Why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft.

Can you change this situation right now by going to stay at your parents. Just do something different.
Be very clear in your mind that this is him. This is his messed up head..not you.
Going through the same stages everytime won't help so thats why l am saying , if possible, move to your dps. But long term he is not fit to be in a relationship. It may be to do with his childhood but thats not your fault and a lot of people have to overcome childhood stuff and it doesn't make them horrible.
Stop discussing it with him and justifying yourself. He is totally out of order.

It might mean he is cheating. I doubt it though. What it does mean is that he is an abusive, manipulative and controlling arsehole who doesn't give a shit about how his own behaviour impact on his wife or kids.
If he does this a lot, ask whether it is worth it. The answer is that it isn't. Do you really want to live your life being kicked out of your own room and being emotionally abused for committing the crime of talking to a man. I would seriously leave him unless he agrees to immediate counselling and takes full responsibility for this idiotic behaviour.

Leave him, OP. This will never change and he will soon start this behaviour with the DCs as well. They deserve better.

You have done nothing wrong, he's just a cunt.

Love, you need to get yourself and the children away from him. You can't live like this and it’s not fair on the children. He’s escalating and it’s only a matter at a matter before it gets physical and before he starts on the children and any perceived slight. If you don’t leave now, you will regret it.

I know it’s not easy, but it is necessary. Be strong.

If he's in counselling (and while obviously I have sympathy for someone who has genuinely endured abuse and abandonment, it does seem rather convenient that a woman - his mother - is to blame for all this), then surely there must have bee a degree of focus in the sessions on stopping his irrational responses before they get out of hand and impact his life and loved ones? OP, I suspect he's weaponising his past - using it as a carte blanche to act like this and demand it is put up with. And even if (and it's a big if) he isn't - nobody, no matter what they have suffered, should get to visit hell on their loved ones and expect them to tolerate it in the name of their own pain. What is currently happening, also, is that your children are being set up for another generation of the cycle.

How would he respond to a calm and resolute 'Dh, I am not tolerating this nonsense any longer. As you intend to go out today anyway, please take a bag with you and go and stay somewhere else until you are ready to be fair and rational with me'? If you feel that approach may put you in danger, it may be worth using his absence today to call Women's Aid.

Alternatively (and again, only if you don't feel you would be in danger on returning), get up before him and take the dc out for the day, in the car.

Respond to the dc's questions as honestly as you can. Tell them you don't want to get divorced, but Daddy is behaving very badly and making everyone unhappy and it may be that he can't go on living with you if he won't stop. It will do them good and reassure them, however horrible the situation, to hear you acknowledging the truth they witness.

Yes, definitely sounds like he's the one having the affair so he's either taking his guilt out on you (I felt he has any) or he's trying to push you away to make it easier for him to eventually leave, both of these are totally unacceptable and you're right, the children don't need to see their parents fighting, so as hard as this will be, and it will be hard, you need to get him out of that house or move you and your children out if you have someehto go, and start to live your life in peace free of the arguing, or adultry.

He sounds very controlling. I know someone who was like that once. It started off like this and eventually he was telling her what to wear, where she could go and who she could see. Would accuse her of being a whore and getting undressed in front of the neighbours, even in a bathroom with frosted windows. Would insist she get undressed in the dark despite blackout blinds. Slippery slope OP. Just remember your always going to be ok on your own and you never have to stay anywhere you don’t want x

If he thinks that, says that and behaves that way then he doesn't have the capacity at the moment to trust you without the need to control your behaviour, which of course isn't trust.

This is abuse. Don't accept it, don't let your dc see it as acceptable. Do whatever it takes to make it stop (legally, of course!).

You can't fix him and you know it is affecting the children.
It's time to put them first and not him. He ruins every special event. Think back to your childhood and what do you remember most? It's the special times. What special memories do they have? I bet if you really look at it from their perspective and stopped minimising and making excuse for him and trying to work out what you did wrong you would see the special memories they have are that they don't deserve to enjoy anything special and associate it with punishment. The worry they approach you with when daddy storms off is them already blaming themselves and trying to work out how they were naughty. Ease please think of how to fix them and not him before it's too late. He had a choice they don't.

He's destroying them. He is an adult ad despite being in counselling he is choosing not only to act like this but to worsen his behaviour.

Don't let him ruin your children's lives even if you no longer value your own. Do not under estimate the damage this is doing to them. I don't see how you can seeing the results in your husband. This will be your children's fates or worse if you don't act and protect them from him. He can't because he chooses not to, so you must by removing his fuel ( you and them). Perhaps in time he may learn to be an effective coparent but now you need to think if them and get them out. Only he can choose to change and you being there is actually preventing him from seeing that because you are his scapegoat for every bad feeling he has. Things will not get better whole you are together. It's a toxic situation that will destroy all of you.