to be sick and tired of people being rude about our home?

[Breadsticksandhummus]

We (DH, me and 2 year old DS) live in a 2 bedroom flat in London. It's pretty small, but it's not tiny. It doesn't have a garden. We bought it four years ago, are not planning any more DC and have no plans to move. It's 30 minutes away from my mum's and we have a great support network in this area. DH's commute is quick and easy (I work from home).

So we are fine. We are happy. And yet I am SO sick and tired of comments (mainly from DH's family, but also from some extended members of mine and a few friends) about "poor DS" "not having enough space to run round" and expressing shock and horror that for the same price of this flat in London we could have bought a house outside London, constantly asking when we're planning on moving etc etc. Yesterday when MIL was here she said "oh this place gets smaller every time I visit".

I find it really insulting and upsetting. We've done it up nicely. We keep it tidy, clean and clutter free. DS has a nice home here with everything he needs. OK we have no garden but we have at least 3 or 4 lovely big parks within walking distance of the flat, a garden at my mum's and he has a lovely big garden at nursery which he goes to 3 days a week. I can't drive for medical reasons so being in London is incredibly convenient for me as I can simply walk or get public transport everywhere.

I wouldn't dream of visiting someone else's home and making such comments. Why do they do it?!

I would never be rude about someone's home - that's just obnoxious

Do I think that all children should have access to a garden? If I examine my feelings honestly on this point, the answer would be yes.

There's so much fun to be had in a garden for children. Swings and slides and paddling pools and slides that end up in paddling pools. DD practising her netball with the netball post. DS practising his cricket in the cricket nets. Doing the spacehopper olympics. Both kids earnestly watering their plants and watching their tomatoes/beans/lavender grow. Playing catch, and running around.

If I am honest with you OP. and this is a hard thing to hear, I do believe every kid should have a garden.

But we don't live in a world where every child gets to have a garden. There are hundreds and thousands of kids who live in cities, who live in flats, who have no slides or swings at home. To criticise this situation is to be monumentally mean.

It's a British thing, this desperation for kids to have a garden. I grew up in a maisonettes in a city centre in Israel with no garden and they act like I grew up in the third world! Never mind how much I talk about playing in the parks and on the streets with friends and going to sports clubs and whatever

Very rude. My MIL used to do this when I had my first flat. She lived in a hilly area in a pretty normal house that had lovely views. When she came to my flat all I got from her was:
"How sad, all you can see from her are roof tops"
"Doesn't it drive you mad hearing sirens going past all the time?"

We took them a short drive away for a walk as she likes walking:
"I suppose this is what some people call the countryside"

It was really tedious but nowhere near as annoying as someone implying it was sad for your DS! I don't know how you're managing to keep quiet.

I've often wanted to ask MIL whether she would make the same comments in a friend's house but I never have as I suspect she probably would. She hasn't got many friends left these days.

As for 'every child should have a garden', I think it's nice but in no way a necessity. Mine were never that interested in playing in the garden unless they had a friend round in which case you might as well take them to the park.

is it really a british thing? I spend a fair proportion of my life in France and I can assure you it is not a british thing.

I believe that kids benefit from a connection to nature. I believe that kids should be taken for 10 mile hikes. I believe that kids brought up in cities get disconnected from nature. There really is no compensation for that. I love cities and spend most of my time in them. I love the whole thronging nature of cities. But kids growing up disconnected from nature will suffer - there's no doubt about that.

Some people do tend to hear the word ‘flat’ and make all sorts of weird assumptions.
We live in a two bedroom flat with with our four year old DS. We have big communal gardens (and a gardener), we’re surrounded by great parks, close to the river and not far from woods and can be in London in 30 minutes (I’m including the walk to the station in that). Somehow the poor little love manages to keep a brave face on
For us it’s very simple - we have big commutes with both of us working full time, and live in a house pretty far out from all of the things we want our family to have access to OR we live in a flat, I only work part time and we have all of that wonderful stuff on our doorstep. Not exactly a tough choice to make!

There's so much fun to be had in a garden for children. Swings and slides and paddling pools and slides that end up in paddling pools. DD practising her netball with the netball post. DS practising his cricket in the cricket nets. Doing the spacehopper olympics. Both kids earnestly watering their plants and watching their tomatoes/beans/lavender grow. Playing catch, and running around.

I grew up with a garden and didn't do any of those things in it. Every single thing you've listed there are things my ds does at our local parks. Yes, even the gardening.

I think people try to justify their own choices so perhaps they envy your short commute or easy public transport. People always used to go on and on about much they preferred kitchen diners to lounge diners which is What we had. I always found that rude. We bought what we could afford.

Thesearepearls - could you not also argue that children brought up in the middle of nowhere with limited access to galleries, museums, theatres and so on, suffer too?

But kids growing up disconnected from nature will suffer - there's no doubt about that.

You do realise that not having a garden and being disconnected from nature do not go hand in hand?

We are at the park or in the woods or in some form of the great outdoors every day we have off together. When DS is at nursery he spends most of the day outside. We have family holidays in the countryside several times a year. Get a grip.

*Thesearepearls" I don't know if you've ever been to London but there's quite a lot of nature. We have owls and bats and foxes in our garden. That is even allowing for the fact that your opinion, which has been presented as fact, is backed up with no evidence whatsoever.

I mean christ, reading a couple of these replies you'd think poor old city children were brought up not knowing what swings were. Are people really that narrow minded?!?!

OP you live in a lovely flat in London. You are rich having such a culturally interesting and diverse city on your doorstep. Your son is really fortunate. Just ignore the rudeness, and yes they are being rude, and remember how lucky you are.

Ignore them and try and clap back with the positives. I had a beautiful tenement flat in a big city and loved it. There was enough room for DS but we had to move to have DD. We probably would have ended up moving anyway even if we had one as we were surrounded by gasps when people found out we were raising a baby in a flat (the horror!!) and I think that would have got to me eventually but I often have wee daydreams of still being in my lovely flat. Just feel strong in your own choice; some people may be envious you never know.

I grew up with a garden and didn't do any of those things in it. Every single thing you've listed there are things my ds does at our local parks. Yes, even the gardening

I agree, I grew up with a garden and never really used it. I’m not an outside person.

Obviously I’d rather have a garden than not with children (do have one of sorts in fact but as it’s central it would be massively bigger if we moved out) but I would NOT sacrifice the commute, the time spent away from my children and partner etc to get that garden. Not to mention the amazing facilities in London.

I had an old friend who lives in mid Wales visit recently. I think she was genuinely shocked that there are trees in London.

City living and you have WONDERFUL parks in LOndon. MiL if you moved she probably wouldn't be happy so don't fret and smile and say have you seen our parks.

Thesearepearls" I don't know if you've ever been to London but there's quite a lot of nature. We have owls and bats and foxes in our garden

Yeah. in your garden. I have all of those. In my garden. The point of the post was that whether or not kids suffer from not having a garden.

Just had DD cropping the blackberries and the french beans. in my garden.

I know not everyone can have a garden. I get that. I'm somewhat sorry about that, as you have gathered from my posts.

One of my good friends bought a house in central London with no outdoor space so that he could walk to and from work and spend more time with his three kids. This was a deliberate decision instead of a huge house and garden in the suburbs and an almost entirely absent father.

This has worked brilliantly for them and I think it sounds like you’re making similar choices. The only thing to do is practise the excellent Mumsnet line ‘Did you mean to be so rude?’

I know not everyone can have a garden. I get that. I'm somewhat sorry about that, as you have gathered from my posts.

Nothing stopping you from opening up yours to children who don't have one.

Just had DD cropping the blackberries and the french beans. in my garden.

Your point being what exactly?

breadsticks
You have to get over the MASSIVE chip on your shoulder
re read the thread with the positive eyes that lots of people have posted
or move to a house

FWIW I work in London two days a week. One of my colleagues told me that he was replacing the lawn in his garden (he did actually have a garden) with astroturf. This is very common in London. He is not a gardener btw. You can always tell a gardener. Gardeners work to ensure that their shrubs attract bees and butterflies. They make their gardens fun for everyone.

People are often dismissive of our cottage—I think it’s because they make assumptions about us based on our educational backgrounds and because both our children went to private secondary schools.
And then they see our house and are seemingly stunned by its moderate size.

We don’t care. We haven’t had a mortgage for more than a decade and don’t need a cleaner as it’s not a large house. It’s affordable to heat too. But I am always a bit surprised that people make so many judgments about other people based on house size.

It's not me with the chip Ta1kn. You notice I am not the one making snap judgements about children who do not grow up in cities. There are any number of things I could say. I haven't, because it would be rude.

My thread was not asking if I am damaging my dc by not providing him with a garden. It was asking if I was justified being annoyed that people were making rude comments about my home. Judging by most of these responses, I am not BU.

Would appreciate you not being condescending. I have no chip, I am happy where I live, I am merely annoyed that people are making base assumptions about how my son lives because he is in a flat in the city.

However, accusing someone of having a chip on their shoulder is a frequently used method of shutting down discussion, so hey ho.