To think that some types of 'western dress' e.g; high heels are as oppressive as the burka?

[malificent7]

Don't get me wrong; I have worn heels in the past in the dubious hope that they look 'sexy.' I have mostly ended up hobbling along at the end of the evening in pain and fed up, envious of those wearing trainers.
I do realise that women have a 'choice ' to wear garments such as heels, mini skirts and boob tubes but aibu to think that they are not garments of liberation but rather an over sexualised aesthetic imposed by the patriarchy.

I am not a massive fan of the burka and I do think that they have been enforced by the patriarchy for a different reason; to protect the modesty of the woman. I am very against the burka ban and I think Boris Johnson is a prick for his comments.

So both types of dress control women in different ways; the western dress to promote sexuality and the burka to hide it.

In short, women should wear what they want without government enforcement and comments from Boris and his ilk.

And before we talk about seeing women's faces when we talk to them and the obstruction to that that the burka causes; what about a full face of slap that many western girls embrace now?

I think choosing to wear the niqab when it's enforced on women across the world as the only means by which they can leave their home is privilege in action.

If you can only feel close enough to your god under a swathe of cloth that cuts off your ability for non-verbal communication, then either your faith or your god mustn't be very strong in the first place. Possibly both.

I don't support a ban, purely for the fact I would worry that those women who are forced to wear it (because I'm not naive enough to think there are none in that unfortunate position in the UK) would become even more restricted than they already are. But I do wish that this symbol of misogynistic oppression would die a natural death.

One example Hijab forced Iran yes it is wrong and so is forcing someone who wants wear niqab not to wear it.

But Western feminists are quiet on this issue

As someone who has been to Iran there are other problems like women and self consciousness. They have one highest plastic surgery rates particularly rhinoplasty. Because they see the Western nose as ideal and hate their Iranian nose. It's sad what we are forced to believe according to beauty standards

@ Banana

I don't understand it either but I don't belittle women who choose to wear it.

And people say stuff how it stops integration. Not really I have seen many niqabi women in jobs from: pharmacists, store workers, teachers etc.. Their colleagues don't have problems with them understand them fine

Just cause you find something misogynistic doesn't mean everyone else will.

Anyone heard of Al Hazar university in Egypt? It's the oldest university in Egypt and considered a centre of Islamic learning & teaching.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Azhar_University

I think we can reasonably say that it understands Islamic teachings.

Last year (LAST YEAR) it issued a fatwa saying that wearing the veil is compulsory in Islam and there shouldn't even be a debate about it.

www.egyptindependent.com/veiling-is-compulsory-in-islam-debate-unacceptable-al-azhar/

So, please...enough with the "It's not an Islamic tradition".

And domestic abuse also happens in white non Muslim homes as well. How do you know their husbands don't force them to wear particular clothes?

Women who are/feel forced to do plastic surgery, bikinis, wear less, fake nails*
No one feels forced to do any of these things, unless perhaps if they are in an extremely abusive situation. It is not the norm. Many women of all ages don't do any of those things.

@ Banana Tifo

Exactly people claim its got no part of Islam but in fact there are rulings regarding niqab. Although it isn't a majority opinion which most Muslim's don't believe there is still a ruling though weaker opinion around it.

The Muslim's who also slate women wearing niqabs are disgrace. In other words, the West will only accept a certain type of person Muslim's who have to be liberal party alcohol type and those who give up wearing hijabs niqabs. Sad but true

@ noeffingidea

Point is you can't assume someone who wears hijab or niqab that is a huge misconception which Westerners have. In fact I know stories of Muslim husbands who left their wives just because they decided to wear hijab. But unfortunately that isn't a interesting story and will never be news worthy

Jorginho5 women get abused in West yes but it's not condoned. Stop with your false equivalences. Women all over the world are fighting for their rights, we in the west still have a way to go but others are clearly lagging behind.

Stop assuming women who wear hijab or niqab are always forced to. Yes it happens but many also choose to wear it

And the fact that you belittle them shows you don't follow your liberal principles

We fight for the feminists in Iran too - this is just just a UK issue. What worries me is not just that some countries abroad are behind us but that they used to be advanced like ours - mini skirts in Afghanistan, iran under the shah and now have gone backwards. At least Saudi is letting women drive but you still need a father or husband's permission to do most stuff such as travel abroad.

So, how we supposed t tell the difference between those forced and those that want to? How do we protect women that are forced? By the way only thing that I am against is full face coverings.

jorginho5

How strong you hold the binds that imprison you then.

Does your dh join you in covering up head to foot??

Yes me too I only want a ban on the full face covering.

Jorginho5
No offense, but please don't @ me, as it sends a notification. It's better to bold a posters name if you want to adress their post.
I agree, some women will wear niqab through choice, I think we all know that. It's still not comparable to non Muslim women doing the things you said though. Of course there are fashion trends (the eyebrow thing comes to mind) and some women definitely do spend a lot of money on their appearance, but it's also easy to opt out of that kind of thing if you want.

I’m very confused about the Al Azhar university, I had read they had backed the banning of the veil, this isn’t the article I had read but the only thing I could quickly find right now

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egypt-drafts-bill-to-ban-niqab-veil-in-public-places-a6920701.html

Xenia and we all know, some women a part of the problem because they perpetuate these things and excuse them because its what it means to be accepted by men. It's human nature, I've seen this in my own culture and I have a European background.

Forced is a difficult issue to decide from a psychological point of view. Most of us such as the Tories, Labour, me, BJ etc would not ban it even if forced. We can just educate women as to the negative impact it has on them and others around them.

perhaps one way to deal with it is for many more English atheists to adopt the burka for a joke or because the have a bad hair day and then it will lose its significance for women conned into thinking Islamd requires it.

@cuppaorwine

I don't cover my head or body. I am just saying to allow everyone to wear what they want

Although me and many others may disagree doesn't make it right banning it

No one is belittling them but critisising the monstrosity that is a burka.

And don’t tell us that all women in these outfits do this from free will. Please.

Sorry banana I just looked at your link, that is I believe only talking about the hijab (as the woman in the photo), so not the face covering.

Also I’m getting very confused by the terms in this thread when people say burka are you referring to the face covering?

No because feminism and the right for women to be a part of society equal to men is more important than a small group of women who choose or otherwise to cover their face in public.

This is the interesting point - we are all in the UK saying don't ban it but we will continue to have a right to speak against it and to speak against other sexism we see around us and indeed to say there is no God etc etc.

On the thread i think we are using burka to mean face totally covered with the grill thing, which is relatively rare. All the head coverings restrict women and they would be better off giving up in my view but again no one is suggesting a ban or a one view imposed state like North Korea or Iran or something. We tend to live relatively in harmony in the UK compared ot otherr countries and most people assimilate in a generation or two. I am in favour of allowing religious freedom as long as that is coupled with free speech.

But who says all women believe in feminism?

I remember a survey where only 7 percent calling themselves that.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/amp/

Who said that feminist is the best way to follow? Many people seem to disagree