to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Just FYI. if you are in the south east the train company that has had loads of worker strikes has allowed them because it doesn't effect the money that they get because they are subsidised by the tax payer.

I’m not in the SE, but that’s interesting and I didn’t know that so thank you.

@IvyKatie44 I thought it was something like that. In Waltham forest you can borrow a cargo bike from the council for a deposit. How cool is that?

We've done pannier shopping for years plus deliveries. Very efficient!

Op that's hilarious grin On the same thread you claim to work 13/14 hours at the school then say the school is only open for 12 hours (6-6 or 7-7).

Don't think you need to be good at maths to notice that doesn't add up!

you are clearly not very good at reading, as that is not what I said. Why don't you try again

it may be only a small percentage thats currently build on ,but how much of the rest is suitable for housing etc?
i laughed when i saw in a local city where they put an estate knowing that every winter without fail the field was under water !
it does have all the local infrastructure in place though.lol!
bicycles are certainly not as eco as people make out . have you seen how they are manufactured? i have , just as bad as a car factory , especially as the majority now come from the far east!

Plum or

That’s really cool to be able to hire a cargo bike

I'd rather people walked when possible, rather than making short car journeys, but people generally need to drive to commute, to shop, to help family/friends.

Until public transport becomes reliable, affordable, connected, clean and efficient, I won't be using it to commute the 20 miles to and from my workplace. To get to work, I'd need to walk 20 minutes to a station, travel by train (Northern Fail) 20 minutes (costing £15), then walk another 20 minutes to my office. Or, i can get in my car and drive 25 minutes door to door, costing considerably less than the price of a train ticket.

You did. Earlier you said you work 12 hours minimum more like 13/14 hours in the school then later said the school opens for 12 hours a day. It's on the thread written by you so I have no reason to make it up

I get the bus now because it works easily for me but in my previous role if I had wanted to use public transport I would have had to walk for 20 minutes, get 2 separate buses, and then walk for 15 minutes. In all it would have taken me an hour and 25 minutes. That’s nearly 3 hours a day, or 15 hours per week. I doubt that is unusual - many people are in similar circumstances.

It isn’t selfish to avoid driving in those circumstances.

People should not be blamed where local councils have failed to provide adequate public transport.

So OP, what are your working hours? Just so we can stop the ambiguity!

@thinkstwice, have you really gone back and read it again and still not read it correctly?

a few wines maybe?

that's really really not what I said, and its really really not in the least important or relevant, so go back and read it correctly, or just leave it, or whatever, but I'm really not going to bother to answer again

@mrspock you are letting your personal circumstances severely impact on your opinions. The fact you work part time in admin which can be done a stones throw from your house is different from a lot of other people’s situation. Many of us have careers - which require us to be able to drive and have access to a car....if only to get ourselves to our place of work on tome. I’ve worked very hard to progress in my career and the commute , in my car, is a necessity.

I don’t have time to protest or to add hours onto my day by using public transport.

you are letting your personal circumstances severely impact on your opinions. The fact you work part time in admin which can be done a stones throw from your house is different from a lot of other people’s situation. Many of us have careers - which require us to be able to drive and have access to a car....if only to get ourselves to our place of work on tome. I’ve worked very hard to progress in my career and the commute , in my car,

Where I work now is a train journey from my house. I think the drive on everyone to have a career and to progress encourages this, when previously the emphasis was on providing for a family. I’m not criticising, just explaining what I think the difference is.

I get what you mean about not having the time to protest and complain about these things but that’s what they’re hoping!

Ok op, well believe you go in at 4am or 5am and leave at 6pm working as a teacher in a school. Whatever you say op we'll believe you...

Would you prefer we didn’t encourage people to have careers??

Oh and me having a Career is providing for me family!

Huge social change like this has to come from the top ie government policy. It's all very well ranting and raving on MN about how we're all killing thousands and arbitrarily deciding other people's commute is a piece of piss without knowing (or caring) about any other aspect of their lives.

Where are the car pool lanes, the cycle lanes?
Where are the school buses so that parents don't have to drive dc to school on the way to work?
Why do school and many office start times have to be 9am ensuring gridlock as millions of people try to get from A to B at the same time? Why doesn't government incentivise employers to allow more people work from home at least a few days per week?
How about investment in reliable public transport?

There are quite a lot of things that could be done to reduce the number of cars on the road although they all cost money. It's not as simple as telling people already juggling jobs, families, studies, caring responsibilities to just sacrifice huge chunks of time every day just to get to where the have to be. No matter how smug and superior that makes you feel!

Nick Nancy she works 4/5am until 6pm. She might be the only teacher in the country to do so but hey ho, she also knows that most places in the U.K. have good public transport so....

We should all live simpler lives and just grow veg and not go anywhere. Except our husbands who should go out and work in the big cities and earn the money for us to sustain these lifestyles and pay for the houses with gardens big enough to grow our own veg in

Would you prefer we didn’t encourage people to have careers?

I’d rather we emphasised community duty and family life personally, but that’s another argument.

Green I agree with most of that.

Community duty such as paying for services you use?

i think there are a few posters on here who live in a different way to the majority.
when it comes to transport its down to each individual/family to do whats right for them.
there is no right or wrong.
when it comes to climate change saving the planet etc. again there is no right or wrong again its up to the individual how they approach things.
what i loath is people preaching what you should or shouldn't do . i will quite happily tell them where to go, as its MY DECISION!! as it should be for everyone to make their own mind up!

MrsSpock what’s wrong with people having careers?

thinkstwice When someone in a particular job works far more than others doing the same I do wonder if it’s because they are struggling with the workload and aren’t as good as they think they are.......

Bicycle manufacture is seriously not one of our major environmental issues. All factories should be ensuring appropriate, safe conditions for workers, and taking appropriate action against pollutants - it may be the case that bicycle factories (as could any other factory) are not doing this. This universal factory problem does not somehow make the process of manufacturing bikes as polluting as that of cars.

But a) bicycles weigh 1/100th to 1/50th of a car, some even less, meaning they require the proportion of mining and manufacturing emissions. B) They are upgraded less frequently once people reach adulthood (my mountain bike is a decade old and has at least another decade in it, my road bike is nearly 50 and still fine). C) And they result in zero emissions during use. D) They have no battery, which means no lead, or other major toxic chemical requirements. E) They have no electronics requiring rare metals to run their computers. (Even if they did have the last two, they would STILL BE better than cars due a,c and c.)

I am not an anti-car person by any stretch of the imagination, but we really mustn’t kid ourselves that we aren’t damaging the environment when we choose to drive. I regularly choose to do things that aren’t the most moral option: I am not vegetarian, I buy mass produced clothes, I occasionally fly on holiday. I don’t kid myself that these are the most moral things I could do, just the same as my car driving isn’t. Doesn’t mean I don’t do them; they are more convenient and pleasant for me, just as driving is.

Community duty such as volunteering locally, helping the disadvantaged, neighbourhood watch schemes, activities for locals...

@mrspock having a career doesn’t necessarily exclude those things. Many careers have a positive impact on society and community. Being career minded doesn’t mean at the exclusion of community values and family .