to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Why sadly, MrSpock? I love my working style, as do other people who work the same way. My area is so huge (the entire SW) that there is no one place where I could live in order to cover it completely. So I live in my village, a few miles from our head office and I drive, a lot.

I meant sadly in that it’s sad more rural communities don’t have reliable transport systems that makes driving a necessity. Some jobs would always require a car though so there is that.

Like your partner, I can’t imagine being able to do that without a car.

I haven’t worded that clearly, sorry. I mean that I would like to see better infrastructure that gives people more options in rural areas.

@MrSpock You'll correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you had one very young child and were pregnant with twins? So who are these DC - plural - at Christmas you talk about these charity gifts to and are old enough to understand?

Mrspoke nothing dangerous about UK roads

If people didn't pay their train fares en masses, then trains simply wouldn't run. It's hardly rocket science.

Oh, and those people, you know, ordinary folk, the common man, who work for rail companies would lose their jobs. Bravo.

You'll correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you had one very young child and were pregnant with twins? So who are these DC - plural - at Christmas you talk about these charity gifts to and are old enough to understand?

I said DC to hide the gender but realised it was pointless as I’d already mentioned DS. He’s not old enough to understand of course, but we do it in order to set a routine and encourage it as the norm. That way he will understand when he’s older.

It’s something I decided to do long before I had any children.

And will you also teach your children that theft is wrong, but not in all circumstances. It's ok to cheat public transport companies (which you think more people should use) but not, say, steal from Tesco.

dont know what the space is like on new developments in other areas but here the is not the room to add cycle lanes or cycle paths , all the new ones here lead directly on to the current road structure with one entrance on /off the estate via a roundabout or new/modified junction

Stealing from Tesco isn’t something I’d do or encourage, but I honestly can’t get upset about hearing that large companies have been robbed. Most of these companies are unethical and exploit the people therefore if someone makes off with a load of biscuits I can’t get upset about it.

Independent businesses are another matter entirely and anyone who steals from those, or a private house, or a hospital etc, is a massive arse.

And no, before someone gets confused, I do not rob Tescos.

I work in three offices. My ndn works in one of the offices I travel to. Ndn drives every single day to the office. Many people I work with in different offices will drive less than 2 miles to work, just themselves in the car- 4 empty seats. One colleague actually drives less than one mile, I walk passed her house on the way home to mine

Yanbu about pollution, it's not pleasant.
I'm a car owner but there is no affordable parking at my work.
So I cycle, but there are days where i look longingly at my car as i wheel my bike past it. 🙄
I used to get the bus, but struggled as i hated brushing against the filthy black windows, touching the many touched poles and watching the tide of god knows what swilling down the gangway.

Feedthemachine

But there’s room for cars to drive, but no room for pavements or cycle infrastructure. It’s all about making money 💰 for the builders and not making pleasant areas for people to live where they can walk or cycle instead

But there’s room for cars to drive, but no room for pavements or cycle infrastructure. It’s all about making money 💰 for the builders and not making pleasant areas for people to live where they can walk or cycle instead

Yep. Money is the source of all these issues - short term profit above the long term impacts on society

Pickachew

How much money do you think private train companies receive from the government in subsidies? Do you know if it would actually make any difference if people didn’t pay fares on masse or is that an assumption?

I live 20 miles from where I work. It takes 25 minutes to get there in good traffic. 45 in rush hour. There is no physical way for me to get to work without a car.
Also my job spec stipulates I must have my own car.

I think there's quite a bit of evidence that improving cycling and walking infrastructure is better for the local economy- people stop off, use local businesses etc.

Local authorities are really really bad at costing this stuff properly.

Kemer2018

Wants to drive a car to work and admits that but due to cost cycles. As costs rise more people use bikes, it has happened before. People leave there car for longer trips and save money using a bike for shorter journeys

We can walk to school in our village but a lot of kids are driven in from the two villages either side as their village school were closed down.

We do have a bus stop. The bus comes every two hours and goes up and down the main road. Ok if that’s all you want to do. The connecting buses are about an hour apart. I tried it once when my car went to the garage. I thought I’d get the bus home. Took me nearly an hour to do a five minute journey. I can’t be sitting in a bus stop for an hour, I have things to do.

My brother got the bus the other day. It was late and he missed his connecting bus so he had to pay for an Uber anyway. He was so annoyed he texted me about it.

I might jump in my car into town for a five/ten minute journey but that might be the only journey I make. The bus goes up and down several times a day. Now who’s polluting the environment?

considering the amount of houses needed and the lack of space left , all new estates will be like that , a lot don't even have enough space for the cars , as they need to squash as many houses in as possible, gone a bit of topic there.
i will say i love cars especially classic ones , but i now hate driving because of the traffic ,the idiots and the incompitant! but thats another thread!
i dont think there will be a time where there are no cars as its just not viable ,reducing their use is good but with this country as it is it wont happen for several decades ,and then only if large funds are used to sort out our infrastucture.

People should endeavour to work locally or car share?? Seriously, have you no concept of the modern world of work?

I commute 35 mins (by car) to my place of work. The next closest location where I could realistically do my job is about 150 miles away. Even if I went for a job in the same sector you're still looking at an hours commute. The world just doesn't work that way anymore

considering the amount of houses needed and the lack of space left , all new estates will be like that , a lot don't even have enough space for the cars , as they need to squash as many houses in as possible, gone a bit of topic there.

Only about 4% of the U.K. is actually built on.

And building outwards is fine, but they should provide transport links and also build doctors surgeries, schools and shops.

Plumbie79

In places where Cycling infrastructure has been put in place small business have increased takings by between 15-25%

People can stop easily on a bike and don’t have to find a place to park etcbikes can just be propped up locked and you can easily pop in shops sit and have a coffee not worry about time.

I can get a fair amount in my panniers, certainly easier than carrying home on the bus

Op that's hilarious On the same thread you claim to work 13/14 hours at the school then say the school is only open for 12 hours (6-6 or 7-7).

Don't think you need to be good at maths to notice that doesn't add up!

Between the fictional working hours as a teacher, the "school which opens all summer holidays " and you claiming to know that the majority of public transport in Britain is good from experience is hilarious!

You had a good point at the beginning with people needing to think more about their car journeys but then it sort of spiralled down from there

I commute 35 mins (by car) to my place of work. The next closest location where I could realistically do my job is about 150 miles away. Even if I went for a job in the same sector you're still looking at an hours commute. The world just doesn't work that way anymore

It depends what you do. I don’t have a career and work part time in admin, which I can do pretty much anywhere.

If you’re a marine biologist or something then sure, you’re limited by location. But many people, office and retail workers especially, aren’t so limited.

That said, I support local employment opportunities being more widely available.

MrSpock

Just FYI. if you are in the south east the train company that has had loads of worker strikes has allowed them because it doesn't effect the money that they get because they are subsidised by the tax payer.

It is why the strikes keep going on and on.