to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

It is those who drive under a mile for a journey that can be walked (unless you have a disability) that are the worst in my view. Especially those who take children to school and then go straight back home again.

Agreed. Absolute wankers.

Op my sister used to say things like you when she didn't drive. "Those lazy car drivers clogging up the roads and polluting everywhere" she used to say. Then she learnt to drive mid 30s and now drives to work! I said but what about all those years moaning about drivers? "Ah well that was before.."

I think you may be telling some tall tales on this thread! You seem to have an answer for everything...

A teacher doing 13 to 14 hours a day Not even the head teacher at my school does those hours and most site managers like staff off site by a certain time so they can set the alarm. They would also unlikely be there that early to open up.
Plus an hour commute each day? So assuming you got there at 6am and was leaving at 7/8pm you would be getting on your public transport at 5am^ and getting off your public transport at 8/9pm at night. So up at 4/4.30am, on public transport at 5am, 13/14 day in the only school where teachers do those hours in school, home at 8/9pm plus take work home and^ you have children too to see and spend time with.
And you work in a school that is open all summer holidays too where teachers are apparently going in to work..

How can it possibly take you six weeks to reorganise your classroom and similar?

It doesn't take six weeks to reorganise my classroom, where did I say that? I'm in for about 3 weeks probably, and only a week or so of that is reorgansing the classroom

What we paid for our car (£3K,) along with petrol, maintenance, tax, and insurance, IS less than public transport, (when you are taking 4 or 5 people in the same vehicle to place!s) And it's waaaaaay more convenient, much quicker to get anywhere. Also, as some posters have said, you can leave places much later, and have much more freedom.

I have had many a time when I have had to shoot off to get a family member in an emergency, (when they have been stranded late at night,) or I have had a request to take someone to hospital, or the dentists, or we suddenly need something, and the car is the only way to get it.

I could not even IMAGINE having no car. Not EVERYone lives in the middle of London, or Brum, or Manchester, or in a town on a bus route. (Frankly, I would much rather live very rural where I do now than live in a big city or on a busy bus route in a town, but that's another story!!)

off to work now, may well rejoin this when I get back

Hang on. I thought you were a teacher....and as you live in London then you will still be on holiday?

Well spotted @auditqueen !!!

@oldsockeater

Completely agree op. Cars are polluting, dangerous and elitist.

Journeys of 3 miles or less can be done by bike if there's no public transport.

People are too selfish, lazy and snobbish to care about other people or the environment

Oh do bore off... You know NOTHING about peoples individuals circumstances. And how you suggest a single mother transports 2 little kids to their school that is 3.5 miles away because there are no school places for them in her little town..... ? Tie a trailer onto the back of her bicycle with a skipping rope, and drag them along the dual carriageway?

Fucking daft! No joined up thinking whatsover by SOME people on this thread, including oldsockeater and the OP @ClaireTree1! They are too busy being smug and judgemental, whilst knowing fuck-all about anyone else's lives or commitments.

As I said earlier, many people I know - including me who lives very rural - would not be able to get to work with no car!

I’ll probably get slammed for this but on the short journeys on our trains, they don’t check for tickets and I rarely buy one. So the train for me in some cases, is free.

Yes I know this is “stealing” a journey but considering the prices are steep and the companies keep insisting on raising the prices, not investing in the railways and try to extort people, I don’t really mind!

Many people commute to work into cities because they can't afford to live in them. Those people in cars 'holding up' the OP's bus may have driven an hour or more to get into her city as trains are unreliable, packed and smelly, and prohibitably expensive!

Talk about living in your own bubble .

The government don't want people to drive less. They need the exorbitant petrol duty. There is no incentive to make public transport cheaper, more efficient and more pleasant to travel in outside of major cities.

No, if you specifically want my opinion, you are morally wrong, it is very wrong for you to contribute to pollution to put a single occupant car on the road for the sake of saving yourself an hour a day, which you could to some extent put to good use on the bus if you chose to anyway

Go on then. How can I be productive on a bus that doesn’t involve reading or a device?

I would like you to be banned from making that journey. I don't expect you to agree with me though

If you ban me from that journey, I lose that client. Do you think that’s reasonable?

*I’ll probably get slammed for this but on the short journeys on our trains, they don’t check for tickets and I rarely buy one. So the train for me in some cases, is free.

Yes I know this is “stealing” a journey but considering the prices are steep and the companies keep insisting on raising the prices, not investing in the railways and try to extort people, I don’t really mind!*

And yet you like to lecture others?

So you’re happy to not have a car as long as you can not pay for trains 😂😂😂

To drive to work takes me 15-20 minutes in clear traffic, 20-30 minutes in the usual afternoon rush. (I start late so miss the morning rush hour). To get the bus takes an hour. [...] So, you tell me, am I justified driving?

If you like driving, yes. But people who really don't like driving are also justified in taking longer to go by bus. I sometimes feel that there's a feeling among people who like driving that there is something morally wrong about taking a bit longer for peace of mind. Some of us would probably not be nearly productive at work if we had worries about driving home hanging over us.

And yet you like to lecture others?

So you’re happy to not have a car as long as you can not pay for trains

Yes because I’m not contributing to laziness and pollution, am I?

I have a problem with big business. I’m a socialist and I have real ethical gripes with capitalism. PT should be nationalised anyway.

I don’t agree with OP that cars should be banned, just we need a cultural change from reliance on cars and better PT.

I can tell you something for free (which clearly you’ll love)

Unpaid fairs is a massive problem on PT and goes towards why fares rise.

So you’d like me to use my car less, but pay an increased train fare to cover people like you who think you’re special and don’t have to pay?

And you’re happy using a service you haven’t paid for?

A teacher doing 13 to 14 hours a day - normal

hmm Not even the head teacher at my school does those hours - no, our head doesn't either, never known a head teacher do the hours their staff do anywhere

and most site managers like staff off site by a certain time so they can set the alarm. They would also unlikely be there that early to open up. - depends on the school, most school premises are open at least 12 hours be it 6-6, or 7-7 or whatever, ours is open 4am-6pm most days, until 7pm Fridays, and longer if there are events after school

Plus an hour commute each day? So assuming you got there at 6am and was leaving at 7/8pm you would be getting on your public transport at 5am^^ and getting off your public transport at 8/9pm at night.

yes, correct, you can add up, well done although days the school closes at 6, I am home by 7.30, I am not the first in, nor the last out, ever

So up at 4/4.30am, again, yes well done, good adding .

plus take work home not every night, but many

and you have children too to see and spend time with - my "children" are 17 and 19, and I do spend the evenings with them, which is why I like to go in early

confused - what are you confused about?

And you work in a school that is open all summer holidays too where teachers are apparently going in to work as in fact is the case in every school I know......

I didn't say I do 16 hours a day, the pp stated that they couldn't use public transport because they do 12-16 hours a day, and I said I also do 12-16 hours a day. it varies during the week

You seem to have an answer for everything

well, I'm sorry, If I'm asked, I'll answer, don't see the relevance of any of this, nor do I see what your issue is. None of this is remarkable or worthy of comment or likely to cause confusion as far as I can see

Not cool @MrSpock

As a pp said, people like you contribute to the higher train fares!

And you’re happy using a service you haven’t paid for?

Don’t charge me £8 for a journey and I’ll pay. Don’t turn up twenty minutes late and I’ll pay.

I’ll pay for a service if it’s good. The current service isn’t up to scratch so I refuse to be ripped off by rich blokes in suits who pocket that cash and don’t invest in the railway. They don’t give a shit about the public. They only care about lining their silken pockets and funding another private jet to the Caribbean.

Fuck big businesses. Fuck exploiting the people.

Perhaps a separate topic, but in my opinion there are people who I could never justify being given a driving licence, at least for a long period of time. If you have been a thief you should not be helped by having a car licence to help you steal again and get away. No more bleeding hearts to avoid a driving ban if you have 12 points. No licence ever again if you are convicted of drink driving a second time. Definitely no licence if you leave an animal or young child in a car unattended.

Most schools that I know aren't open for the summer holidays. Teaching staff normally arrange to go in for a few days to arrange classrooms etc but that's it.

Yep it’s my fault trains are expensive and not those in charge!

Just like it’s immigrants’ fault there are no jobs, the unemployed who are feckless, and the disabled who should have their benefits cut, right?

No one ever looks into it deeper, do they? No one ever looks at the massive bonuses, huge salaries and profits of those involved? Funny that.

Don’t charge me £8 for a journey and I’ll pay. Don’t turn up twenty minutes late and I’ll pay

But you’d like me to use public transport more

Now I know you’re either completely thick or just goady. I know which.

fostering numerous disabled children.

I thought she'd adopted two children?

Hey ho. I live in Devon where even the OP has admitted that public transport is shit so guess I can continue to drive without further judgement 😂😂😂

What do you do from 6am til 7pm in school plus work at home as well?! Ofsted week I understand but every single day?!!

But you’d like me to use public transport more

Yes, I would, because it would increase demand and put pressure on the companies and the government to improve the service.

Calling me thick or goady just makes you look like you can’t articulate your point.

fostered first, then adopted

Hey ho. I live in Devon where even the OP has admitted that public transport is shit

in my experience, the worst in the country!