to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

It doesn't though does it?

Have you been on the tube in this weather? Commuter train in rush hour? Walked 350 yards in 30 degrees with three bags of shopping and 2 kids or pissing down rain with those kids? Or managed a pushchair on the tube train or bus? Live 1 mile from the school and on the school run have to park 200 yards away from the school and then run your kids over there in all weathers? And hey guess who has all the car parking spaces at the school. Don't see many teachers getting public transport to school well not recently anyway.

I’ll probably get slammed for this but on the short journeys on our trains, they don’t check for tickets and I rarely buy one. So the train for me in some cases, is free.

So you're a thief then. And you dare to judge people who drive.

Yes, I would, because it would increase demand and put pressure on the companies and the government to improve the service

You have absolutely no business lecturing people to use public transport more when you’re not prepared to pay for your stance.

You’ll have a shock when more and more train companies introduce mandatory ticketing and on the spot fines for people who don’t have a ticket before they travel.

So you're a thief then. And you dare to judge people who drive.

Yeah I steal from those poor CEOs. Shed a tear for Chaddington Walker-Matthews who won’t be able to take his privately educated DC on their fourth holiday this year. So unfair.

Have you been on the tube in this weather? Commuter train in rush hour? Walked 350 yards in 30 degrees with three bags of shopping and 2 kids or pissing down rain with those kids? Or managed a pushchair on the tube train or bus?

yes
yes
yes
yes

Live 1 mile from the school and on the school run have to park 200 yards away from the school and then run your kids over there in all weathers?

why do you drive your children to school if you only live a mile away?

I pay for my ticket for long journeys and journeys where there are ticket barriers. I’m not paying £££ for five miles up the road lmao.

Hmmm. Well I think there are lots of issues here. A big one is that in recent times, a lot of us have moved away from living a walk/ short bus ride from work. Perhaps partly because jobs aren’t for life any more.

DH and I both drive to work: DH because he wouldn’t have time to get a bus to DS’s nursery, then to work without being late. Me for the same reason on the way home. And it’d take me 1.5 hours to get to the nursery by bus if he was unwell- it’s about 25 in the car.

when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

It doesn't though does it?

I mean, when it does, it doesn't always exit, but when it does, it should be used

@mrspock Not buying a ticket makes ticket prices rise for those who are genuine enough to pay for their transport. So you are actually contributing to less people using public transport due to rising prices.

plumpie79, yes, I agree, often it is a failure of imagination (mea culpa too!). However, financial cost is not the only consideration. There are loads of others that have been listed on this thread.

In my small personal way I do try not to rely on the car. I purposefully bought a house in a village centre, I walk to shops most of the time and also commute to work by public transport most of the time. But I do drive for recreation as places where I want to go are not easily accessible by public transport, especially with children in tow.

Not buying a ticket makes ticket prices rise for those who are genuine enough to pay for their transport. So you are actually contributing to less people using public transport due to rising prices.

The train runs whether I use it or not. I wish more people took a stand against unfair PT practices because as I said, it should be nationalised anyway and should be more reliable and cheaper.

I would have no issue paying if the quality I was receiving was higher and the service more reliable and the amount not a rip off.

Still cheaper than a car, even at those prices though!

When a thief tries to take the moral high ground

Clairetree1

I don't really see why that is amazing, or even particularly noteworthy

1/ as a fellow teacher if you are doing these hours everyday you are doing something very wrong.

2/ if you are saying that you occasionally do these hours fine but saying that its everyday is worng, Its shit like this that gets us a bad name.

3/ its noteworthy because anywhere outside of a major city it would be damn near impossible to do.

When selfish bastards contributing to obesity, a capitalist hellhole of a society, laziness and destroying the entire planet try to take it

You continue driving yourself and your lazy kids around. I’ll focus on mine knowing the importance of ethics, morality, healthy exercise and the environment.

I’ve got a number of small errands to do tomorrow. I was going to give taking a walk a go.

I’m going to go by car dedicated to MrSpock

MrSpock sorry but you sound like a first year uni student who's just discovered social justice and socialism and started a tumblr account about how much you hate The Man 😂😂

Jacques lol, it doesn’t annoy me if you individually take a car, it’s the whole societal nature of reliance on cars.

I think society in general has gone backwards though and am slightly radical in my outlook so I’m unsurprised you don’t agree with me.

I take my dd to gymnastics by car because its impossible on public transport within the time frames allowed. I'll make sure to tell her she's lazy when she's on her 9th hour of training that week and about to go into a summer intensive.

sorry but you sound like a first year uni student who's just discovered social justice and socialism and started a tumblr account about how much you hate The Man

Lol. Thankfully some of us don’t turn into the drones we hated at that age and commit to our views.

and am slightly radical in my outlook

Oh golly the “I’m so rad” type.

Gotcha

Better than the middle aged mummy in a landrover type!

@MrSpock Pretty pathetic saying that people have 'lazy kids.' You're making yourself look like a right muppet. At least some people aren't teaching their children to be thieves.

Better than the middle aged mummy in a landrover type!

And you know that how?

Good job I'm early 30s and drive a merc then, I'm not too bad. Just them middle aged cows that we hate, right?