to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist

They DO have the right to drive cars, even where perfectly adequate public transport exists.

woolythoughts your post is music to my ears (well eyes since I'm reading it!).

I drive a lot. I live rurally so yes, the points about that are all very relevant, however the main reason I drive is simply because I enjoy it! I love it. I love my cars. I get immense pleasure from driving. I have 2 cars that I love - one for commuting during the week and my weekend sporty car that is used for no other reason than to enjoy going for a drive!

I loathe public transport - and would much rather travel in my own private car without anyone bothering me. I've done a hefty amount of commuting on public transport in the past and I have no desire to go back to it. My car is faster, cleaner, cheaper, more comfortable, more reliable, and above all, a joy to drive!

Yes, OP, I am probably the equivalent of satan to you... and while I could pretend to care... I'm afraid I just don't. I love cars, I love driving, and I have no intention of giving it up (or sharing my car with strangers!) anytime soon! I'm a petrolhead... always have been - always will be!

Don’t say you have to drive because you have kids though. Plenty of is with kids use public transport

The poster didn't say this. She said she drove because it made HER life easier, part of which involves her children.

Bus route aren't adequate, that's the problem. Buses are also so expensive that if you already have a car (eg need to own and insure a car for any reason) then it is cheaper to travel in your car than on public transport most of the time. And not just a little bit. 3-4 times cheaper.

I live in a rural area now, but even when I lived in a city (and got the bus) my journey took 2-3 times as long and was at least twice as expensive as petrol for those driving cars.

People need more incentives to use public transport. As you point out, most of those who do use it, do so because they have no choice.

The car is a modern convenience. I could live without most of them - central heating, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer, hoover, tv, laptop, mobile etc etc They all come with negative impact while making one aspect of our lives easier.

I love my car. I think the car is one of the most wonderful inventions ever. The freedom it gives me is second to none. I can go places i could never get to by public transport, and do 5 different things in an afternoon instead of spending hours waiting for buses.
I do think of the environment and pollution. I do what I can, but I’m not going to give up everything. I would like to see industries being made to change their impact and would support more ec friendly cars. But it really does have to be a complete overhaul; the piddly amount of electric cars on the road is making fuck all difference.

I also don't think the different bus companies help. My hometown must have half a dozen and one area might have 3 companies providing a route another area might have none. Not to mention that they all have separate tickets.

I drive to work with my husband.

It takes 6 minutes without traffic, 10-15 minutes with traffic, 50 minutes on the bus and 45 minutes to walk.

I drive because it’s convenient. I have a low emission car, so don’t overly concern myself with the environmental impact.

Tonight I am driving into town. We need to get there before 6pm, and the bus wouldn’t get there in time.

I don’t have any issues getting the bus, and do get it if I don’t need to drive (like I take the train for long journeys if it’s convenient) but sometimes it really is easier to get the car.

Also bus tickets are like £4 a day here, it doesn’t cost me that much in petrol and parking for my car, so there’s the cost to be factored in too.

Oh, and my holiday which I've just planned out this year is two weeks of just driving..... rural road in scenic parts of country with hotels at strategic intervals. Just because I can.

Public transport is so wonderful here (not!) that my son has to leave the house at 7.20 in order to guarantee arriving at school in time just 5 miles away. That's due to a combination of crap bus routes that don't go anyway near my home nor his school, therefore long walks at each end. An irregular bus service (1 per hour), and a painfully very long/slow route through housing estates.

And before the smart arses come along, yes, he would be quicker walking, but not feasible when he's carrying 20kg on his back due to the schools not providing lockers or even coat rooms - maybe just about feasible on a non rainy day when he doesn't have games/PE kit to carry too! And no, he couldn't cycle because there are no safe routes - no cycle paths/lanes along a very fast and winding A road. (Actually there is a canal tow path but because it meanders around hills etc, it's a 10 mile journey using it!).

What annoys me is people who drive a car but then tell me my disposable coffee cup is bad for the environment / I don't recycle enough / I shouldn't use plastic bags...

To the ones using your car for convenience but also recycling etc. donyou realize how the efforts you are making are minimal compared to how much pollution your car creates? How do you justify it?

I choose to drive rather than take public transport as it is convenient and I can travel home from work when I'm finished rather than wait for a bus which can be up to an hour or two.

I drive an electric car though so I don't contribute towards the ICE car pollution so get to feel smug about it.

Not to mention that they all have separate tickets.

As a bus lover I agree that is a nuisance. Not so much where I live, where the only route that isn't Stagecoach is one I'd never take anyway, but where my parents live, there are at least 3 bus companies with roughly equal shares of the routes. It means that if you buy a day ticket you have to be really careful which bus you come back on. And their outlying village is one of the places where you basically have to be home by teatime.

I wonder if there'd be any mileage in the idea of one national integrated bus company, like we used to have for trains.

Urubu, come on. Ultimately people drive for convenience, buying a disposable coffee cup works for you but that doesn't make you a better person because you don't drive.

It's also far easier to switch to a non disposable coffee cup than it is to stop driving a car.

@CornishMaid1

smug EV driver high five

at least some of the car usage could be cut down by having an efficient bus service

That is absolutely true. But it needs to be a service tailored to the needs of local people - as in going to the right places and arriving at sensible times - such as before 9am, to allow commuting. It would also need to have sufficient luggage space for a decent grocery shop, plenty of space for wheelchairs, mobility scooters and prams, have shelters stops to wait in rather than a pole on the edge of an open field so you get soaked and frozen, and be reasonably priced. Decades of government policy would need to be reversed for this to happen. Branch lines would need to be reopened. Public transport would perhaps even need to be renationalised to allow proper timetable and fare integration. It's a big ask!

We should also be doing a lot more to make walking and cycling in rural areas a more attractive option. Cycle routes, pavements. Secure places to lock a bike up. Grants for e-bikes. Perhaps even a requirement for companies employing over a certain number of people to provide a shower!

It's not that it's impossible, but it is a big ask and it would need a complete culture change to make it happen.

What would happen, I wonder, if areas around schools became pedestrianised at pick up and drop off time? Excluding local residents and official school transport - which should be provided to all pupils living outside of walking distance from the school and any students with mobility problems...?

I live in West London, the public transport in Surrey is very good, faster than London. It might be faster (the one and hour bus as opposed to far more frequent in London) but in my recollection of living in Surrey (and I mean proper Surrey not London boroughs pretending to be Surrey) we don't have all night public transport or the tube. We've also got to contend with the worse rail franchises in the country whose daily attempt to get commuters into London every day fails miserably.
You really do talk bollocks.

The people who could realistically be making use of public transportation generally already are. See everyone who lives or works in central London for example. For those for whom a switch to public transport would mean longer journeys, greater inconvenience and more time spent simply getting from a-b when for most of us we have no more time to spare, and all of this at not inconsiderable expense, it's just not realistic, however much any of us might agree in principle that it's a superior moral choice. I say this as a mother of two under two whose main mode of transport is the bus.

You are being ridiculous and goady. You work 12 hr a day in school ? So that will be 7am - 7 pm then? Take the bus home with what I know would be a huge amount of books? The buses must run frequently and late where you live? How do you manage to only take up one seat carrying all of that. So we are to assume you get home at 8 pm or later every evening from what you say? I do not believe you even have children. Hope you are also only purchasing food that is produced very locally? Where do you buy clothes from? Are the raw materials sourced locally? Likewise your furniture?

I enjoy driving and riding my motorcycle. I am entitled to do so providing I pay the VED, Insurance and keep the MOT valid, I can also afford the petrol. (and obviously obey rules of the road to keep licence valid).

I don't like public transport, I use it sometimes but I certainly won't be forced to.

This has to be a goady post.

I don't know why people are humournig this. OP, it really is none of your bloody business why people chose to drive. If cars had been around since the beginning of time everyone would have had them then too. They are a relatively new invention in the grand scheme of things.
No one believes you work a 12 to 16 hour shift as a teacher, absolute crap!

The thing is, all the people like @YouShallNotPass saying 'I am entitled to...'. Well legally in the UK, yes. But in a wider sense, the way that most of us (including me, and most others in this country) live is wildly unsustainable, and we are getting our entitlements at the cost of the environment, of children dying of asthma attacks, and our own children inheriting the effects of severe climate change. The government has little incentive to change give the economic impact and likely backlash from voters who'll be annoyed about taking the bus.

It's not goady for OP to have asked whether there are morally /ethically too many unnecessary journeys going on.

Ffs there I'm humouring it too!

I couldn't do my job without a car, it would be impossible to do so.

I can't get a bus to the hospital where I live for example.

Some journeys aren't always necessary though.

I think there will become fewer cars on the road soon.
maybe not drastically, but if Brexit pushes fuel costs up, and of course the new rules for cars, i can see a drop in use.

It is interesting observing car travel when there are fuel strikes and people were limited to what they could buy.
essential journeys became the norm and far fewer vehicles on the road.