to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Have enough run ins with crazy people and public transit and you will switch to a car too.

Nothing like waiting for your bus transfer on a dark corner and no way to leave because you will lose your ride.

Cersei I think it’s sad that society would rather see parents working in Tescos on the tills than support living wages that would allow one parent to stay home.

I’m not saying those jobs are pointless, but it would be more beneficial to society to have a family unit than everyone working non essential jobs.

It is essential that I use my car for work.
As I pay to have an expensive and reliable car outside, I absolutely wouldn’t also pay to then use public transport on an evening and weekend leaving my car just sat outside the house.
I have an 8mth old who wouldn’t experience half of the things he does if limited to public transportation - such as certain classes/parks/visiting grandparents which would all be extremely difficult without a car. Of course there are a few local options but our options would be more limited.

Public transport generally works out cheaper than 'paying the great expense for a car'

I live in a small town. DH works just outside the far side of the nearest city, I work just past the nearest city in another direction. My journey by car takes 30 mins. It's a direct route, I pass loads of busses, but unfortunately none of them stop on that road or start anywhere near where I live. For me, public transport would be a 40 mins but followed by a 20 minute train. Because of the timings, I would need to leave the house at 7 to get to work for before 9. Which means our house would need to get up at 5:30 each morning to get everyone washed, fed and ready. Our parents look after DS but 2 days a week he is collected from ours so they would need to be up, dressed and at ours by 6:45am which isn't fair on them at all.
My offices are moving soon which will change everything and I will be able to get a lift in with DH and DS. Once that happens, we'll sell the second car as it won't be needed.

the bus fare is many multiples of what it would cost in petrol to do the same journey
DH has a company car and the petrol is free as a perk of his job. He has a fuel card and the company pays. It’s tiny but we squash ourselves in at evenings/weekends (instead of using my much bigger car) because we basically only have to pay for parking. I think this is quite a common perk for company cars? And it makes public transport even more expensive in comparison.

Because Public Transport is Shite, absolutely Shite.
It’s expensive as f**k
It doesn’t cover most areas so either a taxi or an hour walk to get to the other bits is usually required in conjunction.
They’re unreliable, lots are either late or cancelled on a semi regular basis
It takes far far longer to get anywhere using public transport
They’re limited usually between 7am-10pm. People need to travel outside these areas.
So why would anyone pay more money, to have to wait around for a bus/train that may or may not come, with young dc and add at least double to your journey time?

Well I'm never going to agree with any poster that suggests making it harder for disabled people to use cars.

If you increase the price of fuel to make use of a car for only the very rich it will mean the price of houses on bus routes/train lines and within walking distance of schools will shoot up. Where I am people pay a huge premium for this already. The government will NEVER invest in proper infrastructure - just won't happen under either main party and the Greens don't stand a chance. All you will do is severely limit opportunities for the least wealthy and which will probably have a greater impact on the carers in society (a large proportion of which is women).

Pie in the sky.

@lethaldrizzle that's not always the case. To get to work I have to cross a county border meaning the train fare is astronomical...that's before I factor in the bus fare which gets me within a 20 mins walk to the station .

Running a car is much cheaper.

LlamaPyjamas Just let you know that fuel is not free, it will be included with your DHs tax code so you will pay extra tax for having the fuel, which may be more or less than the amount is spent by the company on the fuel

Train is far cheaper for me. I live 0.3 miles from a station and it would cost me £100 for a monthly ticket, or I can buy a 16-25 railcard (I’m 24) and get cheap tickets.

There’s no way I could run a car for less than £100 per month, and often it only costs me about £50 per month!

I also think that there are many people, who genuinely need cars for some journeys, but then use the for all sorts of other journeys too, when they don't need to

But they do need to, to make the car cost effective. Why would I pay X amount per month to run a car and then pay far more than petrol costs to use public transport that is also far less convenient as well as more time consuming? Why would anyone do that?

But they do need to, to make the car cost effective. Why would I pay X amount per month to run a car and then pay far more than petrol costs to use public transport that is also far less convenient as well as more time consuming? Why would anyone do that?

I think she means when they could walk, not when they could use a train instead.

Have you just failed your driving test or something OP? 😬

I'd be housebound without my car. I have a disability which causes mobility issues and long walks can be too painful. Driving just now is painful because I have plantar fasciitis flare up.

I aim to get buses or trams when I can but I can't walk to the tram stop and I struggle sometimes to walk to the end of my driveway.

I do know some people who never walk anywhere and jump in the car constantly.

@mrspock then you're in a very fortunate position. Very few people are in a similar situation. There needs to be some appreciation of the fact we all live very different lives. You seem to be coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't work therefore may have more time to walk places.

We drive 10 mins to a supermarket because we're time poor and that's the most effective way to do it when you both work full time.
We walk to local shops when we can but we don't have the time to do that exclusively.

I drive my diesel car because I enjoy it. I chose one that I like to drive, with the roof down (even in winter as it has air heaters in the seat) with my music on.

I get almost free public transport due to my job but I still choose to drive - funnily enough I choose to drive shorter distances and do longer ones by public transport because then I can have a drink and read a book.

I still do over 20K miles a year.

I can honestly say not once do I ever think about the pollution or environment.

So sue me.

You seem to be coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't work therefore may have more time to walk places.

I do work but I’m able to get a train in, and soon I’m going on mat leave and will be doing massively reduced hours anyway afterwards.

So I suppose I’m lucky in that walking my DCs to school most days is doable for me. I also have family who live on the same street so on the days I can’t, there’s someone who can.

City living is very diffierent to village life, I accept that. But I know of people who don’t let their 11 year olds walk to school that’s half a mile away and drive them which is bizarre

So I suppose I’m lucky in that walking my DCs to school most days is doable for me

Not everyone gets their catchment school of course.

City living is very diffierent to village life, I accept that. But I know of people who don’t let their 11 year olds walk to school that’s half a mile away and drive them which is bizarre

Agree with this wholeheartedly. When my DDs were little I had to leave for work well before school, so they were in a before school scheme - which unfortunately I did have to drive them to. But as soon as they were old enough to manage the morning routine by themselves, they walked. And they still do.

My car is my lifeline 100%

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

If public transport was 'perfectly adequate' then more of us would use it. But it isn't, so we don't. Nothing to do with privilege! Cars are still necessary for most of us.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. When my DDs were little I had to leave for work well before school, so they were in a before school scheme - which unfortunately I did have to drive them to. But as soon as they were old enough to manage the morning routine by themselves, they walked. And they still do.

I walked to school myself, from 11. I know so many people who ferry their kids everywhere when the kids could walk perfectly fine.

THATS the type of driving I find irritating. Not driving to work.

I hate driving, drive DH's car once in a blue moon, have never had a car of my own, have always preferred to walk or take public transport. I have always thought the bus services would probably be a lot better if more people opted to use the bus instead of their car. The more money the bus company is making (not by hiking up the prices but by selling more tickets), the more buses they can afford to put on, or add extra routes. Yes, it is perfectly true that there are disabled people who couldn't manage because the bus doesn't stop close enough to where they need it to. But I have been in cities (most of them in other countries, but not all) where there is a really comprehensive public transport network and nobody has to walk more than a couple of hundred metres to get on it. That could work everywhere - if there was the money to implement it. And as the OP says, the buses would be a lot faster if there were fewer cars around to impede them.

Actually what I'd really like to see (but this is a lot more of a pipe dream) is trams on the streets of every city that isn't too hilly for it to be possible. Trams are greener, quieter and they hold a lot more people. Incidentally, in a lot of countries they are also very disability friendly with low floors and easy access.

For those who live in the country - yes, I accept a car is probably more of a necessity there, but at least some of the car usage could be cut down by having an efficient bus service. I know of several villages that have recently completely lost their bus services, and others where it stops at about 6pm so people without cars can never go into a town for entertainment in the evening, which seems crazy. Surely the whole economy benefits if more people can get out and about!

"So I suppose I’m lucky in that walking my DCs to school most days is doable for me"

Some children do not get a place at a nearby school. Some children cannot go to a local school. Ds's severe autism means he has never been able to. His school is a hour away which he goes to by individual transport.