to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

If everyone stopped having children, there wouldn't be a world, just an empty ball floating around. Is this where we are supposed to be aiming for? There is such a thing as taking it too far.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to?

I don't subject anyone to danger because I'm a safe, competent driver and I want to get where I want to go, when I want to get there not the general vicinity based on a bus timetable. HTH

but it's all about context though. Your definition of lazy will differ from others. If I'm on my own I'll walk to the next village to visit the shops. If I have my 3 year old in tow there's no chance - it would take 5x longer.

That’s fair enough and I’m not saying there’s no genuine reasons to use a car.

If everyone stopped having children, there wouldn't be a world, just an empty ball floating around. Is this where we are supposed to be aiming for? There is such a thing as taking it too far.

Well said.

"Driving in a car is lazy. I cannot abide laziness. It irritates me."

But getting a life in someone else's car is fine.

the public transport in Surrey is very good, faster than London

Really? Everywhere in Surrey?

I grew up in Surrey, 30 miles from London, and my mum still lives there. Her village has no public transport, and neither do many of the surrounding villages. It's 4 miles to the nearest town, 5 to a railway station and it's all uphill on the way back. She's in her 70s. Do you think she should give up her car?

I lived on the London/Surrey border for a while and there was public transport but it was not reliable or fast. Trains to central London were half hourly. I used to drive to work in west London because it took more than twice as long on public transport, longer if the train was cancelled (which it frequently was).

I'm no longer in the U.K. and live in a rural village with no amenities. It's 6km to the nearest 'corner' shop, 10km to the supermarket and the nearest bus stop (bus runs every 2 hours) and also all uphill on the way back. I have back, hip and ankle problems. Shall I give up my car too?

The reality is that many, many people are reliant on cars. Billions would need to be invested in public transport to make life without cars a reality.

Please do your homework before making sweeping statements.

Um.... are you saying that if the human race died out, there would be no other life on this planet?

It may surprise you to know that the earth existed for millions of years before humans came along with lots of other creatures. It's arrogant to assume that we have more right to be here than anything else.

ShatnersWig Oh so your agenda is the extinction of the Human race then, gosh talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Um, no.....

Besides no one would know what would be here, for all we know the animals and plants would die out too, but of course there wouldn't be anyone to document it or read it for that matter!

Buses and trains do not run early enough or late enough to get me to and from work, even when I did the same job in London (earlies can have 6am starts and be up to 2 hours drive away though they usually won't send me more than an hours drive away) afternoon shifts finish at 3/4am). I usually have to do shifts on days where there are reduced or no services availible e.g christmas day, weekends and bank holidays. I can be sent by work to anywhere in all of south Wales for a shift, though they try to locate close to where I live as much as possible and it is rare to be sent more than approx 1 hour drive away. I have a lot of kit I need to take to and from work. I do barely use the car outside of work though, walking or cycling as preference.

However, if people had fewer children, we'd have more resources to share, less pollution etc.

If everyone stopped having children, there wouldn't be a world, just an empty ball floating around. Is this where we are supposed to be aiming for? There is such a thing as taking it too far.
This made me laugh. What about all the animals? The world would be far from empty without humans. It would actually be better place than it is now. Or do you think humans are the only species that count?

So tell you what lets not risk it, we'll keep having babies and using our environmentally electric (derived through solar, wind and hydro power) to ferry the little ones around and provide for them, phew I'll sleep tonight

I don't subject anyone to danger because I'm a safe, competent driver and I want to get where I want to go, when I want to get there not the general vicinity based on a bus timetable. HTH

I am guilty of this too but we do have to both accept it's selfish. It's easier to drive so we drive.
We prioritise our own convenience over the health and safety of the people living in our town the environment as a whole.

Public transport is seldom adequate. I use it when I can, that involves a ten minute drive to one of the two local train stations, where I would catch a train to Bath or Bristol, or to London. For London I usually travel by train, quicker and easier, but if there are two or more of us going it has to be by car for most of the journey because it is just too expensive. I can sometimes do the bath or Bristol journeys by train but can't use them in the evening as the trains home finish too early and on Sunday there are too few trains. There is only one bus to and from our village which is slow and takes you to the one town most locals don't feel safe visiting.
We have been on trains at weekends where football supporters have been smoking an using foul language, on one occasion we were very frightened when they said they were looking for someone Welsh to kill.Station staff at Swindon said there was nothing they could do about it. It is also a real problem that there are lots of really smelly people ( not just a whiff, rancid) on the trains and busses these days and constant putting of feel on vacant seats. I had the misfortune to nearly sit on a seat soaked in urine on a recent train journey, someone warned me just in time. I think that although I'd prefer to use public transport more often it is usually preferable to use my tiny, economical, low polution baby Fiat.

I don't know where you lot live, but I get the bus almost daily, often with young DCs, and don't recognise these descriptions of my fellow bus passengers at all!
@katetheshrew I’ve used buses in nice areas that are indeed as you describe. However, in more deprived areas (such as where I grew up) there are a lot of bus users who are unpleasant.

It’s a small town and the nearest cities are 30 mins drive in both directions but probably 2 hours each way to commute on public transport, so most people who have jobs need to drive to be able to get to work. This means that most people who work have cars, and people who are retired probably still have cars that they’re used to driving, and most disabled people have mobility cars or relatives with cars, and teenagers whose parents have jobs get ferried around in their cars.

So buses are mainly used by gangs of teenagers, drunk people, people who’ve been unemployed for long enough to not have a car, students and some elderly people. It’s by no means the majority of bus users who are unpleasant, there are lots of lovely polite people but it only takes one or two awful people on a bus to put you off using them if you don’t have to.

Is the problem with buses that (to a certain extent) bus users are a self-selecting sample made up mostly of people who can’t afford cars and whose relatives also can’t afford cars?

I'm currently working from 5pm to midnight 4 nights a week (palliative care in community ) I then do a 13hr shift at the weekend and usually a 4hr one during the day once a week or every 2 weeks. Needing to save big-time at the min. Throw 4 kids in the mix and a few family members kids that I mind too. Well we must have very different definations of lazy. Will I take my car to make life easier? Dam right I will. Will I have time in my day to worry about the environment? No dont think so. Will I pause between calls to patients and worry about the future of a bloody bee?? 100% not a hope in hell. Yet somehow I manage to sleep well at night knowing I've tried my best for my patients, for my children and myself. What a cunt I am

That is replying to MrSpoke aka wonder woman.

That sounds like very rewarding work. However there’s no need to be crass about the environment is there.

I used to commute on the train until I moved jobs.

Now I can drive the 25 minutes to work, or I can get 3 buses which will take the best part of 2 hours, add 4 hours to my day, and have to leave work early because the last bus home finishes at 7. Not to mention they are so unreliable I'd have to make sure I have no meetings until 11am (just in case)

And for this pleasure of massive inconvenience I can pay a ridiculous sum of money and have to suffer other people's lack of consideration.

I live in a reasonable sized town, so not in the back of beyond, the bus routes are just shit. I will travel on public transport when it is fit for purpose

I think you are really finding it difficult to understand that I literally do not have time to worry about bees, or grass or buses or cars. I need an easy as possible, straightforward life and have more than enough to worry about. It literally doesn't cross my mind. Nor would it cross my mind to start name calling people who didn't share the same concerns as me. That's just bizarre and childish.

I work shifts. I live in a small village, so almost always have to go via the bus station in a town several miles away to get to bigger places.

So minimum two buses. And they don't run early or late enough for my shifts anyway.

I'm another who can do my commute in 20 minutes driving, but it would take at least an hour on buses (if they existed).

No exhaust fumes from my electric car though OP. 😉

(Before you say it yes power does have to be generated to charge my car. However if you look at the energy supplied in the UK today, more and more comes from renewable or cleaner sources every year. And electric vehicles are quieter and more pleasant, with no fumes at street level for pedestrians)

@mrspock - what jobs do you consider not need doing so that a parent stays at home? Just curious as all jobs need someone in them surely? I have DC and my husband has a very good job, I could stay at home and bring up the children until they go to school but I don’t because: I like the freedom having a job gives me and the financial security it gives me to have my own money and I want to be someone other than just mum, I enjoy my job and it is very good hours which fits in with the DC school pick ups and drop offs etc and lastly because the type of job I do I can’t let all my qualifications and skills lapse by that many years otherwise I would be at a huge disadvantage on going back to the workplace once my kids were older

I also think that there are many people, who genuinely need cars for some journeys, but then use the for all sorts of other journeys too, when they don't need to

But if I am already paying great expense for a car, I'm going to use it whatever the journey - particularly when the bus fare is many multiples of what it would cost in petrol to do the same journey