to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Sorry, idiot me, *public TRANSPORT is appalling

Two little thoughts that I thought might be interesting to through into this discussion...

These are interesting stats on car ownership...
www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/04/global-car-motorcycle-and-bike-ownership-in-1-infographic/390777/

And for the OP whose main concern is pollution -and being slightly goady-, whilst that shouldn't be disregarded, there are far bigger causes...
www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/17/farming-is-single-biggest-cause-of-worst-air-pollution-in-europe

I'm comparing the end result.

Considering we grow our own food, walk/public transport most places unless someone else gives us a lift, buy second hand goods and try to source locally, I’d say we do okay for the environment.

We also have our garden set up for bees and bugs and have a special wildlife area to encourage them.

So I don’t think you can compare us to lazy people who drive everywhere!

ShatnersWig so everyone should be miserable according to you and ignore something that would bring them joy.

I live in a town, getting to work takes me 15mins by car by bus it would take me an hour and half. Having a busy household with a partner who works away a lot, 2 dogs to walk and child to get to nursery. I really cannot afford the extra time.

Maybe in London. Definitely not something you can rely on outside of major cities, and forget about it if you live rurally.

Have to agree with this. We have to train station, and the nearest bus stop with buses to the town centre is about a miles walk away, then only a 1 per hour service, and even worse, that bus only goes to the city centre bus station which is the opposite end of town from the hospital, bigger shops, railway station, etc., so best part of another mile walk across town. It must be really nice to live in a city with trams or good bus services or trains, etc. and yes, if you do, then taking a car is a crazy idea, but in most of the country, a good, integrated public transport system is a pipe dream, so you either use your car or stay home!

so everyone should be miserable according to you and ignore something that would bring them joy

Some people have to.

The places I travel to bring me a wage. Which in turn funds the things that bring me joyful . I can’t get their by public transport.

What’s the difference?

"unless someone else gives us a lift,"

In their car presumably. That's lazy of you.

@MrSpock Oh dear, you're starting to tie yourself up in knots. You had a go at a previous poster when they said they enjoyed their car and driving. It brings them joy. But apparently that makes them selfish and a cunt, because it causes harm to other people.

@mrspock providing for my family is an urge. Something I'd struggle to do if I didn't use my car to get to work

It would take me about 2 hours or more to get to work by bus. Same back. 30 minutes by car.
I actually want to have some private life.

MrSpock oh you would find me a truly horrible person. I don't get the bus and have artifical grass. Mainly because I hate to encourage bees and wildlife

But having said that, we have a neighbour opposite who drives her car to the garage literally at the end of our road for groceries - it would literally be a 5 minute walk there and back - you can see it from our house! Not only that, but she does that journey several times per day - one of "those" people who can't plan to save her life, so she drives for her pint of milk at breakfast time, then drives for something at lunchtime and again for her evening meal - she's there and back in around 3 minutes and does it every day - always comes back with just a single item in her hand. Not only a useless planner, but lazy too!

Oh dear, you're starting to tie yourself up in knots. You had a go at a previous poster when they said they enjoyed their car and driving. It brings them joy. But apparently that makes them selfish and a cunt, because it causes harm to other people.

Having children is hard work and is beneficial for society as a whole.

Driving in a car is lazy. I cannot abide laziness. It irritates me.

Comparing having children, a rewarding, hardworking endeavour to driving because you can’t be arsed to walk is a bit of a silly thing to do. One is admirable, one is lazy.

84% of people in England travel by private car (as a driver or passenger) at least once or twice a week. So hardly a privilege of the few!

The rise of internet shopping has substantially increased the number of small vans on the road. Maybe you'd like to focus on people shopping online?

oh you would find me a truly horrible person. I don't get the bus and have artifical grass. Mainly because I hate to encourage bees and wildlife

Do you not think ahead? There is literally a problem with bees dying that will affect you and your kids...

I agree with you in principle too and have used public transport frequently in the past. Where I work now isn’t readily accessible by public transport and I’m not willing to take yet more time out of my day. Plus I hate buses, the ones where I live are slow, either too hot or too cold, dirty, smelly and break down a lot. I do cycle for short journeys where I can and am likely going to buy an electric car when I replace mine

providing for my family is an urge. Something I'd struggle to do if I didn't use my car to get to work

Cars for work can’t be avoided unless you work in a city, but I’m on about journeys that could be walked but aren’t.

Owning a car suits my lifestyle, I live in the country, and use a pickup to collect firewood, tow quad bikes. We go fishing etc.

To give up a car would mean haveing to move to a city which would be my idea of hell.

Comparing having children, a rewarding, hardworking endeavour to driving because you can’t be arsed to walk is a bit of a silly thing to do. One is admirable, one is lazy.
Considering how much of our taxes goes towards supporting parents who are too lazy to pay their own way, I would beg to differ.

Life is about choices. Driving is a choice, as is having children.

I’d have said Oxford was fairly rural?

And you’re a TEACHER!? AND you are going to work on 8th August?

Oxford is a pretty large city ....

Oxford (/ˈɒksfərd/ OKS-fərd)[5][6] is a city in the South East region of England and the county town of Oxfordshire. With an estimated 2016 population of 170,350, it is the 52nd largest city in the United Kingdom,[7][8] and one of the fastest growing and most ethnically diverse.[9][10] The city is 51 miles (82 km) from London, 61 miles (98 km) from Bristol, 59 miles (95 km) from Southampton, 57 miles (92 km) from Birmingham and 24 miles (39 km) from Reading.

For me walking to the bus stop is a matter of taking your life in your own hands. So every time I leave the house I drive. So does every other household around here.

Not everyone has access to public transport that goes where there want to go to

Considering how much of our taxes goes towards supporting parents who are too lazy to pay their own way, I would beg to differ.

Parenting should be supported more by society. It’s underrated and undervalued, and certainly more useful than half the jobs people are forced to do to make ends meet.

Society has gone backwards, in my clearly unpopular opinion!

@mrspock but it's all about context though. Your definition of lazy will differ from others. If I'm on my own I'll walk to the next village to visit the shops. If I have my 3 year old in tow there's no chance - it would take 5x longer.

Having children is hard work and is beneficial for society as a whole

It may benefit society but it's fucked the planet, wiped out thousands of species of animals, and left the world in a far worse place for future generations. Nice one, humans.