to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Oxford? Rural?!

MrSpock care to point out my 'bullshit excuses? Did you miss the bit where I said I just want an easy life? No excuses there. I love using my car, makes my life ten times easier. And that's just it. No need for excuses or reasons, bullshit or otherwise. I've got a car, places to go, things to do just like everyone else. Other people can choose to get a bus if they want. I don't, so I drive. Very simple really.

Also, the best thing we can do for the environment is go vegan as animal agriculture is one of the major contributors to climate change. So that's a really good and feasible step you can take to be more eco friendly. HTH.

add on: we livee in the southeast, but outside the m25 - definitely not. entral london (or central anything really)

I passed a driving test which was expensive.
I pay insurance and tax as well as many other costs associated with owning a car.
I don’t feel the need to justify my journeys.
I enjoy driving my lovely v12 engine vehicle.

The world has moved on from the days where most people worked locally or within town, where it was more common for women to stay at home with children, where people could shop locally.

We now live in a time where people work all times of the day, all over the place as in different towns/cities miles away, it's more like mums work now and local shops have been replaced with large supermarkets miles out for some people.

I totally agree there are people who drive two minutes to the shop or could cycle to work but don't. But I also see that people's lives aren't as simple as getting a regular running bus to the nearest town to work because life is more complex than that.

It's becoming more common for children to be allocated school places miles out now too with the shortage of local catchment school places.

So please stop with the whole "I've been to X on holiday so know the public transport is good" because that's nonsense. Going somewhere for a fortnight doesn't mean you know the ins and outs of somewhere, especially with everyone having different circumstances.

People are telling you the realities of jobs and public transport so listen and learn.

My friend manages 3 kids on the bus but she doesn't do half the stuff we do and everything takes her 3 times as long. Getting one of them to a hospital appointment takes a whole morning for instance because she has to rely on the bus. Her getting to my house is a treck so I go to her.

Yes. Lots of fields, medium sized town with a country feel. But like I said I’m used to large cities so anywhere smaller than Leeds feels rural to me lol.

I live in West London, the public transport in Surrey is very good, faster than London

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry OP but I live in Surrey and the buses come when they feel like it, not to the timetable, and sometimes not at all, so you can’t rely on them to get you somewhere on time without leaving a hours earlier than you need, and are stupidly overpriced.

Oxford's rural?!

@MrSpock Oxford is a city....

I live in West London, the public transport in Surrey is very good, faster than London

They might be faster (fewer people generally) but what kind of area do they serve. When I lived in Surrey the buses only went to town centres and train stations. These aren’t the only places people work.

But I do think people driving 10-20 minute journeys, unless they’re disabled or expecting to carry something heavy, takes the piss.

Very much depends doesn't it. DH 25 min car journey would take 1.5 hours at least by public transport.

Is your main issue pollution or traffic jams?

pollution, I suppose, but traffic jams too

thats selfish MrsRyanGosling.

I couldn't get to work without my car. I'd have to leave the night before and spend eight hours in a bus station! And forget getting home - I'd have to leave four hours early and I still wouldn't get home until 10pm!

Driving to my job takes 40 minutes. Walking would take several days and public transport takes four hours, which includes two trains and two buses!

Not everyone lives somewhere with good (or indeed any) public transport.

I haven't read everything on here, too many replies coming in too fast!

Thank you for a lively and enjoyable discussion.

off to work now, may well rejoin this when I get back

When we had a friend come down from London he was confused and shocked that we had to wait half an hour for a bus in the evening and that it stopped at 10.30pm! And he moaned like hell

It’s a small city in the countryside.

Just text a load of people I work with to tell them someone on Mumsnet thinks they should spend almost 3 hours on public transport (that doesn’t exist) on top of 16 hours working in A&E. The replies are coming in thick and fast.

Think threads like this definitely highlight a need for better transport options, whether we drive or not.

MrSpock also I never said "I have to drive because I have kids" just read rather than misqote me. Even if carefree and single I would still rather drive than suffer public transport. Apart from possibly the train into town on a night out.

And that’s incredibly selfish.

I haven't read everything on here

Oh you have, you just have selective engagement.

off to work now

Aren't schools closed at the moment?

I didn't say ALL, I said MANY, that isn't generalised at all many places have worse public transport than London, and many places have better. Certainly lots of places have faster! In fact one thing my children always commented on when we went on holiday is how fast country buses travel, compared to London buses

So you still can't name one rural place with superior transport?

What has the speed of the bus got to do with anything? Of course you go faster on empty country lanes with hardly any stops, that does not make it superior!

You aren;t even attempting to make sense. You live in West London with some of the worlds best, cheapest, most integrated and easy to use public transport on your doorstep and you are berating everyone else for selfishly using their cars because they may have the occasional bus in the vicinity that goes fast?
Tool.