to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

My bus service is highly unreliable and I go lots of different places that those buses don't get to, and sometimes I have a short amount of time to do it in, so I don't really have much of a choice

thats selfishMrsRyanGosling

And?

Why would you be selfish? Why would you not care about people?

The reality is that these days most things are set up for car drivers and possibly that isn't sustainable

However you are massively simplifying the issue

It's ridiculous to blame car drivers for the pollution deaths....i would challenge anyone not to be able to find something that they do that harms others tacitly

Unless you are a vegan , who never used a car , who has never voted for a political party that has done harm, live off rain2ater collected in your garden and don't own a home that has extra rooms therefore damaging the environment and other people's chance of living accommodation , used a fridge or wasted electricity ever...then you cannot throw stones

There is always a balance and rather than attacking others in a grotesque attempt for vanity piety then work out how people could work together

I work all over the county , I have two young children and a side company as well as parents who live far away..could I use public transport? Yes of course I could but it would destroy through loss of time any kind of quality of life. I couldn't do my job and would have to earn less..this would impact my home and my family. Your statements about the benefits of public transport are limited to certain areas.

Ultimately your moral point is accurate but you have tried to argue it by attacking and shaming others for a circumstance they did not create but have to live in so for the yabu

I'll refer you to my previous post of, you know, just wanting to make my days as easy as possible.

The only bus from where I live, gets me into the town centre at 9.35am. I start work at 9 so not possible

I have teenagers and live on a bus route. However, like many others here have said, the bus is simply unaffordable. It costs £30 per week for my 2 DS to come home by bus on the 3 days they have after school clubs. Or it costs me about £9 in petrol per week to go and get them. If the buses were cheaper my DSs would use them, but they are generally fairly empty because of the cost. When my DD starts secondary school in September, the public bus would take 1h45 minutes each way (2 buses), or it's a 15-20 minute car journey. I would love it if public transport were affordable as it would save me so many car journeys, but as it isn't I will continue to drive.

The CH in Chav LITERALLY stands for Council House. I think you need to learn the meaning of words before using them.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines “chav” as “"a young lower-class person who displays brash and loutish behaviour and wears real or imitation designer clothes”. The idea that “chav” stands for “Council Housed and Violent” is largely regarded to be a backronym, ie an acronym created to fit an existing word. @ProfessorMoody perhaps you need to learn the meaning of words before criticising someone else’s usage of them?

@MrSpock Everyone is selfish. Some to a greater degree than others, but it's a fact. It doesn't automatically make them a cunt.

But that’s horrible. You do so at the expense of others. I can’t fathom being that much of a cunt

Give it a go, I think your already better at it than you realise

I live in outer London but still would struggle getting to work on public transport.

It takes me 1.5 hours to go to work on public transport but 20-30 mins in the car. If I was to go from home to childminder to work, it would take 2 hours so I would have to leave at 5:30am and I doubt my childminder would allow me to drop her any earlier than I already do so I can catch the bus to work. It just wouldn't work. I would have to pay more childcare fees as she would be there longer and I would struggle to get back to the Afterschool club for the older kids.
So while there is a lot of public transport around me in London it doesn't go in my direction of work. My oh works in central London and it takes him the same amount of time for him to get to work as it does me even though my work is a lot closer. I just couldn't work where I do and get the kids to childcare without the car.

The CH in Chav LITERALLY stands for Council House.
Nope.

@LlamaPyjamas That's already been done. Pages and pages ago. Keep up if you can

Everyone is selfish. Some to a greater degree than others, but it's a fact. It doesn't automatically make them a cunt.

Yes but to be so callous about it. It comes off as really ungrateful to me and really unpleasant?

The other thing missing from this argument OP, is the huge number of other things people do that contribute to poor air quality. The food we buy, for example- how many air and road miles has the food you buy done?

I buy locally produced food wherever possible, direct from producer wherever possible. Partly as I like to support local farmers and producers, I appreciate the good quality of our local produce and I like to know about the welfare of the animals and so on. However, local supermarkets ship food from all over the UK and imports- one local grower supplies his soft fruit several hours drive for it to be packaged by the supermarket and then driven back again. That is only one example. So, if you're really serious about this then it's not just commuters in their cars that you need to tackle, it's the whole infrastructure of public transport, as well as looking at food supply chains and a whole host of other things.

MrsRyanG eh, if you think I’m a cunt that’s fine! At least I try to be considerate and care about the environment!

My job is 20 miles away. I spent the first six months of this job (until March this year) getting a bus, a train and then a 25 minute walk. I had to leave at 6.30am every morning to get there for 8.30am.

Then I bought a car, and my commute now takes me 35 minutes. I don't have to leave until 7.55am each morning. That's the first reason I drive.

The second is that I hate using public transport. I'm 26. I've never been harassed so much in my life as when I'm on a bus or a train. It's fairly standard for drunk old men to practically try and sit on my lap while they tell me how "lovely" I am. Gangs of "lads" cat-calling me through the seats. I once had a group of teens throw their rubbish at me from the back of the bus as a 'laugh'. Another time, I had to sit and listen to a group of men loudly rate every woman out of ten who got off the bus as she exited, knowing it was going to be my stop (and my turn) very soon.

I can't bear it. It makes me unbelievably anxious having to be in such close proximity to strangers. That's why I drive.

I thought you were a teacher. Or do you work 15 hours a day in the school holidays as well?

But that’s horrible. You do so at the expense of others. I can’t fathom being that much of a cunt

She's driving her own car around and living her life. That's it. Its neither horrible or cunty or at anyone elses expense.

YANBU.

I loathe selfish entitled car drivers.

many people do take the longer option..

Good for them, but why am I going to make my commute longer? My work life balance is important to me and I don't intend to spend any more time on work related things than necessary.

you are contributing to killing people for your own personal comfort and convenience - are you seriously ok with that?

Fine actually. My car has low emissions so I'm doing my bit with that.

of course only rich people own and use cars!

We're certainly not rich and we both have cars out of necessity

I loathe selfish entitled car drivers

I'm sure we could find a reason to loathe you equally, with little effort.

Hmm lets see, four (4) busses leave here a day, 7am, 9am, 11am and 3pm. They arrive 11am, 3pm, 5pm 7pm.

Without our own mode of transport we'd pretty much be stuck.

MrSpock I would try to care but in the list of issues and priorities in my life, believe me, the taking a bus to save the environment is so far down the list, it isn't even on the list.