To think Boris Johnson should be be thrown out of Tory party?

[crunchymint]

He is clearly racist. He should be thrown out of the Conservative party.

People saying this isn't racism are deluded and don't want to admit they're racist themselves.
People who are islamaphobic complain about things that are commonplace in Christianity. Why do you think that is?

Not all muslims wear veils. Those that do are almost exclusively brown. He is targeting women of colour. Not Jewish men. Not nuns. Women of colour. It is racist.

Jacob Rees-Mogg, another Eurosceptic Tory MP, said: "It's hard to see what he should apologise for. He has defended people's right to wear the burka whilst saying it is an inelegant garment.”

Yes dottier it's not surprising at all that Rees-Mogg is defending Boris.

I just love how we have Boris saying the headline grabbing insulting words, and then Rees-Mogg comes in to smooth things over. Because he's known for being ever so polite and reasonable, so describing it as an "inelegant garment" does almost sounds reasonable. But then, you start to think about it, why does the "elegance" of the garment even matter and why is it important that women wear elegant garments? Yes, people can have opinions on clothing, but that aspect (elegance of women's everyday clothing) shouldn't really be a part of politics.

It makes you quickly realise exactly what Boris is doing. If he was simply explaining why he thought it was oppressive in a reasonable way, I would have been happy with that article.

Not Jewish men. Not nuns. Women of colour. It is racist.

It would also be racist if he was attacking Jewish men.

Not all muslims wear veils. Those that do are almost exclusively brown. He is targeting women of colour. Not Jewish men. Not nuns. Women of colour. It is racist.

Quite a few mental hoops jumped through there.

Boris expressed an aesthetic opinion on a garment. And this was in the context of opposing a ban on the burka. You may or may not agree with his sense of aesthetics, but he was arguing against discrimination. The entire basis of his argument is that in a liberal democracy, you have to accept other people doing what they want, even if they are things that you would not choose yourself.

Emily Thornberry said she wouldn't let a woman in a burkha look after her child, by your definition she is also being racist.

Bizarrely much as I dislike Boris I struggle with the accusations of racism given his wife is Asian. I think he was seeking to appeal to the more islamaphobic / xenophobic element of the right wing because he sees that as his power base.

he was arguing against discrimination

Except he said in the same breath that if a constituent came to his surgery with her face obscured, he'd ask her to remove it; and that female students who turned up at school or university 'looking like a bank robber' then teachers should be entitled to do the same.

Not to mention businesses and government, who he thinks should 'of course' be able to enforce a dress code including a veil ban.

How is that NOT discriminatory?

Saying he's against a full ban but thinks that people should be able to enforce veil removal in some circumstances is just cake and eat it. A concept that of course Johnson is not unfamiliar with.

20Nil

Yes but do you think in these very polarised times they may have more in common than divide? I don’t know maybe???

Baroness Warsi (worth reading the whole article):

Boris Johnson’s contempt for Muslim women is part of a dangerous pattern
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/08/boris-johnson-muslim-women-conservative-party

He was saying that we shouldn’t ban the burqa, as Denmark has done. But his words signalled something else. He said – not only to those Muslim women who veil, but to many more who associate with a faith in which some women do – that you don’t belong here.

I refuse to accept that these phrases were some kind of mistake, and the offence inadvertent - Johnson is too intelligent and too calculating for that. No, this was all quite deliberate. His refusal to apologise supports that.

And the purpose was to mask the argument he was making. He set out a liberal position, but he did it in a very “alt-right” way. This allowed him to dog-whistle: to say to particular elements of the party that he’s tough on Muslims. Yet again, he’s trying to have his cake and eat it.

But as a feminist what really disgusts me in this whole episode is that Muslim women are simply political fodder, their lives a convenient battleground on which to stake out a leadership bid.
[...]
Well, this approach is not just offensive, it is dangerous.

Johnson’s words have once again validated the view of those that other Muslims. They send out a message that Muslim women are fair game. What starts as useful targets for “colourful political language” and the odd bit of toxic campaigning ends up in attacks on our streets. In 2017 there was a 26% rise in recorded hate crimes against Muslims, compared to the previous year. The figures are at their highest since records began. Those hate crimes are predominantly aimed at Muslim women.

uterus

I find your analogy very offensive. I don’t see this as racist as it’s about religion. Again religion is a life style choice and Islam is not exclusivity of one racial group.

To call people who think like I do racist is utterly offensive. Disagree by all means but to try and shut down debate this way and smear others is vile.

Anyway Boris must be rubbing his sweaty hands in glee. but he was so dreadful at his minesterial job I think people now see through him as flaky and not to be taken seriously.

Boris is contemptuous of all women as is mogg. As are the left wing of momentum.

Women need to be worried I think

Saying he's against a full ban but thinks that people should be able to enforce veil removal in some circumstances is just cake and eat it In some cases veil removal does have to be enforced. I've see it done at the DFDS ferry terminal at Dunkirk, where a woman wearing a niqab was trying to catch the ferry to the UK. Going through UKBA controls she had to uncover for her identity to be verified with her travel documents.

scary, as I'm sure you're actually aware, I meant circumstances of the kind that Johnson was talking about – such as in educational contexts (because a lecturer absolutely needs to always be able to see the whole face of a lecture room full of students? ) and in his surgery.

Make no mistake this article was all about Boris bid for the party leadership. He’s hoping to garner support from the right, brexeteers and millions who voted UKIP.

I fear he may be successful you know. Many people of the ‘stick it to the foreigners’ mentality will see him as a hero.

Make no mistake this article was all about Boris bid for the party leadership. He’s hoping to garner support from the right, brexeteers and millions who voted UKIP.

I fear he may be successful you know. Many people of the ‘stick it to the foreigners’ mentality will see him as a hero.

Yep. I totally agree and he doesn't even have to do what the brexiteers/right/Ukippers actually want. Many of these people would want a ban and he's not suggesting that. His language alone and the 'speak my mind/stick it to the foreigners' attitude might be enough to get their support. Scary times.

To those defending him...

Johnson's 'piccaninnies' apology

www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jan/23/london.race

I would have problems teaching someone who was wearing a niqab in the classroom, and as you must be aware, education isn't simply confined to lecture halls.

Having your face on view is the norm in Europe and the Anglosphere, and as you are also aware, yes business and government can enforce a dress code if you want to work for them. Dh had to wear uniform to work as does my db; it is part of the career they both chose. The only time their faces were covered was with flash hoods if they were at action stations or doing fire fighting drills. I don't see that as discriminatory - if your employer stipulates a dress code, and you want the job, then you stick to that dress code.

Not all muslims wear veils. Those that do are almost exclusively brown. He is targeting women of colour. Not Jewish men. Not nuns. Women of colour. It is racist

It is not racist. Neither Jewish women nor nuns wear full face covering masks. If Danish or Belgian or French Jewish women or nuns were to adopt full face veils they would run foul of Danish, French or Belgian law prohibiting them.

Burqas and niqabs are horrible garments. There is no justification for hiding women's faces.

There is no justification for hiding women's faces.

No justification for hiding their boobs either but plenty of cultures make it normative to do so (and I am sure everyone reading this is enlightened enough to think we should do away with all indecent exposure laws and social norms - but they're not, and very few, certainly not the likes of Johnson, are going round saying how wrong it is in the 21st century that people still have those norms).

Ghosto

Not many are defending him in this case but don’t see it as racist in this case. He’s definatly been racist in the past. We are talking about this specific issue.

doenthestrsda Yep and I am guessing if he does even apologise he will get more support as a back lash from the public against the establishment.

And where the fuck is the leader of the opposition in all this???

Fuck me he’s a lazy useless bastard isn’t he?

I would have problems teaching someone who was wearing a niqab in the classroom, and as you must be aware, education isn't simply confined to lecture halls.

I have a question.

If a student wants to wear a niqab or a burka, when they come to sit their exams, how does the exam centre verify that it is actually them?

No.

As a Labour supporter, I’m quite happy for him to stay where he is.

Not many are defending him in this case but don’t see it as racist in this case. He’s definatly been racist in the past. We are talking about this specific issue.

No, it can be construed as bigotry. Perfectly easy to discuss the issue without resorting to bigotry. Given his record is this really the type of person we want representing us? It normalises hate and division.

Yep and I am guessing if he does even apologise he will get more support as a back lash from the public against the establishment.

Despite being establishment himself. Is Johnson the new Farage?

ghosto

Yes I think that’s just what he hopes to be!some kind of peoples champion sticking it to the establishment. That Led to Brexit. It’s a clever move by an unscrupulous man.

Bigotry maybe I see it as more insulting and mysogynistic to be honest much as I dislike the burka.

And no I don’t want the far right representing me or corbyns far left.

Both wings are frightening especially to women.

And no I don’t want the far right representing me or corbyns far left.

I don't wish to derail but what I will say is that socialism is not "far right". The current axis of power in the UK lies with the right. It is lurking further and further right. We have had an MP murdered, a referendum full of dog whistles, increase in race hate crimes, people openly giving Nazi salutes in the centre of London and a gutter press continuing to "other minorities".

The socalled small "c" conservatives have been, with the odd exception, largely silent on the normalisation of creeping far right attitudes.