Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Boris Johnson should be be thrown out of Tory party?

999 replies

crunchymint · 07/08/2018 22:26

He is clearly racist. He should be thrown out of the Conservative party.

OP posts:
DarlingNikita · 09/08/2018 11:12

I bet you gauge more than you think from faces.
That's a bit patronising. I understand the concept of non-verbal communication.

Sure, it's part of a teacher's skills to be able to read people's subtle as well as more clear signs and to be able to draw out from them what they know, what they don't know, what they need help with, what they're not saying etc. But I'm sure there are students whose non-verbal cues are not 'normal' or obvious, for other reasons than veil-wearing. It's up to a teacher to gauge each student's understanding and needs in whatever way is necessary.

2up2manydown · 09/08/2018 11:13

No, I can see what the thrust of the thread is.

I chose to write something different but connected to it.

That ok with you?

ginghamstarfish · 09/08/2018 11:14

It's not racist ... it's his opinion, no matter how ill-judged and idiotic, but not racism. Yes, women should have the right to wear whatever they want - if indeed it is their own choice and not that of their family - but then how does face-covering work in situations such as passport control, in court, etc? Exceptions should not be made in these areas, for obvious reasons.

2up2manydown · 09/08/2018 11:14

My post was to hestershaw1 aka thread police chief. Run your posts by her folks, she’ll tell you if they pass muster.

DarlingNikita · 09/08/2018 11:16

an ill-judged comment into anything more sinister.

Oh, it wasn't ill-judged. That's the very last thing it was. That's why Boris Johnson is so insidious and why we should be very very wary of him.

I'd bet money that he doesn't actually, personally, really think women in veils look like 'letterboxes' at all. He just chose to say it because he knows exactly who it will appeal to and he knows it'll get him votes, support and ultimately possibly the party leadership (whether that is leadership of the Tories or UKIP remains to be seen).

Helmetbymidnight · 09/08/2018 11:16

It's not racist ... it's his opinion

You’re the 2nd poster who’s bizarrely written this.

What do you think racism usually is? Fact?

livingontheedgeee · 09/08/2018 11:16

Wow. Yes, the pm in waiting, ex foreign secretary, multi millionaire leading politician writes a newspaper article suggesting a vulnerable minority group look like bank robbers and letter boxes and that’s exactly the same as me saying that Boris looks a bit crumpled.

Why are they a "vulnerable minority group"? Are they? Really?

The problem with our political system, regardless of which party we're talking about, is they are all too afraid to say anything that might offend anyone, anyone whatsoever who isn't a white male.

The women who wear the veil choose to do so. Let's face it, most of us think they do look ridiculous (and threatening) but probably no more ridiculous than other items of clothing people choose to wear.

If we continue to make a big thing of this then all it does is divide what everyone tries oh so hard to bring together.

We all have opinions about things we don't voice and sometimes quite rightly some things shouldn't be said outright. But we still think them. Boris just has an issue keeping things inside his head instead of letting them reach his mouth. He's a fool and would be a really poor prime minister but let's face it, they all are.

DarlingNikita · 09/08/2018 11:18

Let's face it, most of us think they do look ridiculous (and threatening)

Do me a favour and don't include me in that. Who on earth are you to state what 'most' people think?

YeTalkShiteHen · 09/08/2018 11:18

Let's face it, most of us think they do look ridiculous (and threatening)

Most? Nah not me.

PerkingFaintly · 09/08/2018 11:19

Indeed, downthestrada.

The point of the technique is to push people's emotional buttons ("he's on our side"), while retaining deniability ("he didn't actually say that").

Helmetbymidnight · 09/08/2018 11:24

The problem with our political system, regardless of which party we're talking about, is they are all too afraid to say anything that might offend anyone, anyone whatsoever who isn't a white male

That’s the problem with our political system? That people like boris can’t mock burka wearing women without being criticised??

Wow what an extraordinary diagnosis.

Poor boris, such a loveable rogue, how dare people scrutinise him.

PerkingFaintly · 09/08/2018 11:24

I put that badly.

Rather
he didn't actually say that"
"that's not the conclusion he claimed"

GhostofFrankGrimes · 09/08/2018 11:25

Why are they a "vulnerable minority group"? Are they? Really?

Do christians in the UK generally receive abuse during the day, whilst at work, on the tube etc based on their religion? Any vans been driven into UK churches recently?Are the British gutterpress full of anti christian dog whistles?

mirialis · 09/08/2018 11:33

I don't know if most people in the UK think they look ridiculous (I do) but most people think they should be banned (Im not sure).

livingontheedgeee · 09/08/2018 11:36

Do christians in the UK generally receive abuse during the day, whilst at work, on the tube etc based on their religion? Any vans been driven into UK churches recently?Are the British gutterpress full of anti christian dog whistles?

Why should anyone receive abuse because of their religion? I'm certainly not suggesting they should.

However, there's plenty of anti-Christian feeling in certain sections of society and yes, there are attempts at killing Christians in their place of worship. Look to the USA for examples.

Firstly, nobody is abusing these women because of their religion. Someone has made a comment about their appearance and not because they are female, just because of what they are wearing.

Secondly, there's no Islamic religious basis for a woman to have to cover her face, or act in any way subservient to a male but some women choose to do so. It's their life, let them do as they please but don't try and stop someone having an opinion about what someone is wearing.

Wearing a full veil DOES make many (perhaps not most but I suspect it is most) people uncomfortable.

Recently, in a local cafe, two ladies in veils were trying their best to drink tea and eat a scone up the inside of their veil. They couldn't do it and in the end, they gave up. Everyone, without exception, was looking at them and wondering why they just didn't take the veil off, enjoy their cup of tea and then go on their way. We all discussed the stupidity of it when they left. Not because they were Muslim, not because they were women, not because we are racist - just because it was the most ridiculous thing we've ever seen.

Purringkittenmama · 09/08/2018 11:37

I have just read your thread too Scary- thank you.
What you say is deeply troubling.
I am uncomfortable with people wearing the niqab as I understood it wasn't Islamic (if it were a religious requirement I would respect and understand the reasons for wearing it).
While I wouldn't want to see it banned, it suggests to me that the wearer, rather than doing so as part of their religion, is sending a signal that they do not wish to be part of our (multi-faith, multi-racial-which is a good thing) society and that can only be bad for all of us.

2up2manydown · 09/08/2018 11:41

While I wouldn't want to see it banned, it suggests to me that the wearer, rather than doing so as part of their religion, is sending a signal that they do not wish to be part of our (multi-faith, multi-racial-which is a good thing) society and that can only be bad for all of us

Well said

MrsAidanTurner · 09/08/2018 11:44

An imam wrote in the Times today saying its pre Islamic, its purely tribal. Its been twisted by whabbism and salifists purely as medieval misogynist control tool and as extreme gateway to extremism.

The imam said Boris didn't go far enough and like 5 other eu counties it needs to be banned.

This imam is progressive, allows men and women to pray together, wants to get rid of religious schools. And has been vilified and targeted by the Conservative Muslim Council of UK for his Liberal interpretations.

ginghamstarfish · 09/08/2018 11:44

When I said 'it's not racism' - I mean that women wearing face coverings do not belong exclusively to one race, thus it is not racism. Islam is not a race, it's a religion isn't it?

MrsAidanTurner · 09/08/2018 11:45

I want it banned, absolutely!!

MrsAidanTurner · 09/08/2018 11:48

Iman says its retrogressive Islamic clergy persuading poorly informed Muslims they need to completely cover, through dodgy secondary suspect sources whereas in fact its just misogynistic patriarchy of men controlling women.

DarlingNikita · 09/08/2018 11:49

Everyone, without exception, was looking at them and wondering why they just didn't take the veil off, enjoy their cup of tea and then go on their way.

Why didn't everyone without exception just mind their own fucking business? Do you imagine those women enjoyed a cafe full of twats staring at them? Did none of you have anything better to do?

We all discussed the stupidity of it when they left. Well don't you 'all' sound delightful.

I don't much like the veil, for many of the reasons discussed on this thread, but not liking it as a symbol is not the same as gawping at a couple of people trying to go about their business and then talking about how stupid they look.

mirialis · 09/08/2018 11:56

Why didn't everyone without exception just mind their own fucking business?

Because that's not the way human society works.

scaryteacher · 09/08/2018 11:58

Darling Nikita That's a bit patronising. I understand the concept of non-verbal communication. It wasn't written to be patronising at all; I was just trying to explain how much of what goes on in a classroom is by looking at faces, as facial expressions tell you an awful lot. It can be as little as a slight tightening round the mouth that tells you a lot. For me, it's important to see faces, which is why I would find it uncomfortable and challenging if I were ever to teach someone in a niqab.

As for the burka - don't get me started. It's a revolting garment. My db brought me one back from Kabul as a resource for my classroom. Hideous.

Electrascoffee · 09/08/2018 12:02

He's vile. Yes he should be thrown out.