Setting the bar low for fathers

[GoatWithACoat]

The more I observe IRL and on parenting forums, the more I feel frustrated at the parenting bar being set so low for non resident fathers.

Examples; “Ok he doesn’t pay but at least he sees them” (twice a month)

“Well at least your ex pays, mine doesn’t pay anything so you should be grateful”

I’m not sure if I abandoned my kids, rolled up twice / once a month and paid the bare minimum required by law to raise them people would consider me a great mum.

X Factor last year, several single mums came to audition. One single dad came on and they ran a VT showing him feeding and playing with his daughter like it was the most incredible thing ever.

Was in the park a while ago and heard a couple of women go, ‘awww look isn’t that lovely.’ It was a bloke pushing his kid on a swing!

AIBU to think that in general, the bar is set so low for fathers and the attitude that women should ‘be grateful’ for any crumbs of parenting / domestic chores completed by a man, is really damaging?

Another perspective though - there are some mothers out there who won't let the father's be fathers.

Dh's ex being one of them. Dh is a great dad to his ds. And I'm not just saying that. He loves that little boy to bits. He also pays a solid amount of maintenance etc.

He tries to speak to ds everyday through FaceTime but his calls get ignored.
He always asks for more time in school holidays but she says no.
Soon as September comes and he starts school, dh has been told his time with ds is reducing so now only eow - which dh is absolutely gutted about.
The ex will decide she's doing things on dh's days every now and then so again, dh misses time.
She also moved away. Not too far but far enough do dh can't go round and see him after work etc as he would be in bed by the time he got there.

Every now and then I snoop on her fb and it's all very public. All she does is share the 'how hard it is being a single mother' posts etc. And posts like 'one day when you grow up, you will know who brought you up' etc etc.

Now I know as I've said previously on this post that being a single mum is hard. It will be for her too. But compare my ex to dh....dh wins hands down. Always. But he is portrayed by his ex to be a shitty dad. I feel so sorry for him tbh.

Last night dh dropped him off and dss asked him to ring before bed time - this was in front of the ex also. Dh tried ringing at 6.30. Bedtime is 7.30. He tried for an hour and got no response whatsoever. He then spent the rest of the night worrying that ds would be thinking his daddy didn't ring. She had been active on what's app and clearly just ignoring his calls.

Meanwhile my kids are lucky if they get one FaceTime week from their dad and even then it's as awkward as hell as he doesn't know what to say to them and dcs end up just putting the phone down so my ex is just staring at the ceiling.....

Surely your ex needs to a see a solicitor/CAFCASS or whatever then jelly
I think these type of situations are not the norm, not from what I see around me anyway (including your own ex), but are frequently rolled out as examples of how the fact that men get away with little is all womens fault

Jelly women like that fuck me off. I spent two years begging my ex to be a solid part of DDs life (i regret that now tbh) & he basically couldn't be bothered. Always wanted my cash to get here as that's what child benefit is for, didn't see why he should spend out. Would promise to see her then not turn up. He is a FB doting dad, projects how much he loves her etc...everybody calls me all the names under the sun for being abusive & stopping him being the dad he should be. When i see men desperately wanting to be a part of their kids' lives & all the women see is ££ or a chance to get one over i want to punch them.

Yes the last few weeks have proven it's time to get to that point. However as far as contact goes, dh seems to think he would only be allocated eow (from doing his research). Her reasons for changing the current arrangement to eow is that now he will be at full time school, she will no longer have any time with him to do things apart from taking him to school and collecting him on a daily basis - which to some extent I have to say I agree with.

But he needs to see a solicitor regarding the fact that she cannot just change things as she pleases and school holidays need to have boundaries set. Dh is only allowed to have him if she has social plans and has no one else to look after him. Then he's expected to just be able to have him. It needs to be set in stone tbh.

He really does try and it gets thrown back in his face....and made out to be the bad one.

I'm sure I'm made out to be the bad one with my ex's family also.

I don't expect praise for bringing my children up. I brought them into the world at the end of the day. But I also don't expect to be made to feel like I'm the bad guy. I'm just a mother looking after and protecting her children at the end of the day.

Jelly - the example you're talking about is awful, of course and your DH should definitely see what can be done - eg EOW and perhaps find a way to do the odd week day too (difficult if they're further away, I know).

However, it doesn't take away from the point of this thread. Which is what should be seen as normal for men is generally praised as being extraordinary. Even the fact that your DH is going through this - the fact is that his desire to see his child shouldn't be unusual. It should be normal for all single fathers. The implication is that he's an extra special dad because he actually wants to be part of his DS's life. Your DH's approach should be the standard, not the exception.

@BlingLoving yes totally agree with everything you are saying 100%. This is a conversation I have with my ex regularly.

For example - he moans about how he works all week then has to pay me maintenance. My reply: 'so what, you are their father'

• he works all week, only has every other weekend to himself. My response 'so what, you are their father' sometimes tempted to add and you have every fucking night after work to do what you like so don't give me that shit:

• 'do you have any idea what it's like for me to live so far away from my kids?' My response: move closer then. And you would do that if you really loved them like you say you do.

I totally get what your saying regarding my dh. What he is feeling is whah he should be feeling and certainly doesn't need any praise for it.

I suppose I'm just involved in 2 different scenarios. One is with a loving father who loves his son unconditionally. Another is with a father who is all talk but no actions whatsoever.

One dad is absolutely gutted when dropping his ds off every sunday.

The other dad can't wait to hand them back and only has them every other Sunday.

But 100% bang on that dh is only doing what is expected of him. In all honesty, I wouldn't be married to him if he wasn't like that. He's a good egg.

This is just one reason I bloody love my MIL. She's always on my side when it comes to splitting chores with DH and at Christmas even bought me a plaque to hang up at home that says "I wouldn't need to nag if you just did what I asked the first fucking time"

...and she's very naice and quite posh from the Home Counties so the swearing is quite out of character

The PILs have an absolute 50/50 relationship and always have so my DH is expected to do the same as a hygiene factor not as a medal winning feat...

Another perspective though - there are some mothers out there who won't let the father's be fathers.

Can there never be a thread without someone wailing "what about the poor old menz?" .

@HollyGibney oh read my post! I'm not saying that at all lol. I'm actually a mother of 2 children - 1 with special needs who's father is an absolute dick. If you read everything I've written on this thread I'm in full support of it.

I did read it and I wondered why you thought it was another perspective on this discussion. What your bloke is going through is in no way relevant to the general perception of single mothers and societal acceptance that its ok to leave single mothers and their kids high and dry and unsupported by their father because women are perceived as much lesser.

Without fail someone turns up these threads to point out that "women do it too you know!" It's really tiresome.

Oh and as an aside you say your bloke wants to FaceTime his kid every day, well on pretty much any thread you'll read on here posters will say that every day is too much, it's disruptive and the RP shouldn't have to facilitate it.

@SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires thanks. He was a great dad and a great Grandad. He died 4 years ago and I still miss him.

I think fewer people moved away from their home town in those days, so lived close to big extended families. When he was a teenager he had a number of younger cousins who he helped with, and would have had to do his share of domestic tasks because there were no labour-saving devices (or if there were, they couldn't afford them). I guess if you weren't rich enough to have servants everyone just had to muck in.

Totally agree.

My mum thought my ex was wonderful because he changed nappies (my dad prides himself that he never did).

This is a women who also brought me up to consider myself equal to men

When I got divorced and he behaved like an utter twat it took him cutting off my son (whom he had adopted) for my mother to see him as anything less than a demi god.

“at least he SEES them”

Well FML

Totally agree that the bar is set low.
My dad was amazing, raised 4 daughters and instilled in me that I was equal to a man and a marriage was a partnership. He shared everything with my mum, whoever was home cooked, who ever was free ironed etc. In turn I have married a great man who also doesn't do his 'share' but takes responsibility for kids and household chores not because it's a 50 50 deal but because it's our home, our kids and we both work, we do the best for our family, we both just pitch in.

I wish more women would set good examples to their children. And teach their daughters to expect more and not settle.

Can there never be a thread without someone wailing "what about the poor old menz?" hmm

Personally I get fed up with all the male bashing threads. Yes. There are loads of terrible men out there but maybe women should pick a better choice of partner.

Well I can only speak for myself but when I got married to a man I loved my main aim was to have a horrific divorce

m.facebook.com/MANWHOHASITALL/
I love this!

Oh FFS, yes!!!

I see this with my (generally lovely, in his defense) colleague, a.k.a. superdad:

Doesn't work Friday afternoons as a general rule (but absolutely will answer emails and pick up the phone) and is evidently the best parent ever bar none (TM) due to his groundbreaking decision to acknowledge the fact that he has procreated somewhere down the line.

Compare and contrast with 'designated cold, ambitious, careerist monster whose kids are so going to need therapy', a.k.a. every single woman on the same or a higher seniority level as superdad, who (gasp!) works about the same hours.

Superdad's wife, of course, is a kept woman. Formally but incorrectly described as a successful academic about to be appointed professor. The monstrous mums' pitiful husbands and partners are veritable heroes for putting up with such an untenable situation and sacrificing their career growth for the poor, neglected kids.

[puke]

I had a bit of an argument with a good friend at the weekend, over a mutual acquaintance.

Friend (A) said that mutual acquaintance (B) was gearing up to divorce his wife and would probably move abroad afterwards "even though it would be so hard to leave his children behind, particularly as he has concerns about how [wife] treats them". (Wife comes from a culture where smacking is an every day thing, and it's pretty much frowned upon not to use corporal punishment). A then said that B was a great dad....

I argued that no "great dad" would leave his children in the care of someone that he thought was hurting - possibly abusing - them, particularly to move to another country

We haven't spoken since

The women is the default parent

I have been this for 21 years my adult kids can’t afford to move out.

Their (useless) father thought they should pay me 25 a week - funnily enough him and his wife weren’t prepared to offer the same rates.

Well I can only speak for myself but when I got married to a man I loved my main aim was to have a horrific divorce hmm

LOL.