Setting the bar low for fathers

[GoatWithACoat]

The more I observe IRL and on parenting forums, the more I feel frustrated at the parenting bar being set so low for non resident fathers.

Examples; “Ok he doesn’t pay but at least he sees them” (twice a month)

“Well at least your ex pays, mine doesn’t pay anything so you should be grateful”

I’m not sure if I abandoned my kids, rolled up twice / once a month and paid the bare minimum required by law to raise them people would consider me a great mum.

X Factor last year, several single mums came to audition. One single dad came on and they ran a VT showing him feeding and playing with his daughter like it was the most incredible thing ever.

Was in the park a while ago and heard a couple of women go, ‘awww look isn’t that lovely.’ It was a bloke pushing his kid on a swing!

AIBU to think that in general, the bar is set so low for fathers and the attitude that women should ‘be grateful’ for any crumbs of parenting / domestic chores completed by a man, is really damaging?

I work full time. Don't qualify for any benefits. Get minimum amount ££ from ex and people have the cheek to consider ME a scrounger!

YANBU I noticed in the area of London I currently live, due to lots of parents being older, it is the norm for dads to take care of their children on their own. They look as harassed and worn down as mums do. In the area I grew up in, it is still not the norm for dads to look after their children and they look uncomfortable doing so. In fact in my area if you cannot look after your kids on your own whether you are a man or woman you get regarded as a shit parent.

Completely agree, when I met my ex he was a single father with full custody. I was a single mum to my DS. All I ever heard was "oh isn't he a brilliant dad, raising him on his own". Never mind the fact social services had removed his child before and he lived with his parents, therefore the child's GRANDPARENTS were the legal guardians.
I had children with this ex, he hasn't seen one of his sons because we split in pregnancy and the other he hasn't seen since.
But I suppose he's still Dad of the Year to his eldest son

My partner occasionally dropped off my son to pre-school and the staff would trip over themselves to help him hang my son's coat up etc.
Another time he took the same son to hospital and whilst they were there my son needed his nappy changed. Three different women offered to do it for him, one of which was a busy nurse!

Oh god I agree with you all. Makes my blood boil that my ex gets credit for doing the bare minimum.

Not even just that though. Years ago I was in a pub garden with some family and left my then toddler alone with ex brother in law while I went to the ladies. When I got back a load of women at another table were fawning over them. Why? Because exBIL who had been playing on his phone not engaging with the toddler had suddenly realised (due to her shouting) that she couldn’t get her drink held the glass for her so she could suck it through the straw. That’s all. And yet one of the women actually exclaimed “oh that’s so lovely! What a lovely dad you are!” he was holding the glass while still checking his phone

No-one ever admits to living with these deadbeats, of which there are so many.

Ha! That's very true worra.
There is often a fair bit of resentment (in RL too) towards resident mothers from second wives/partners.
What I find hard to believe is that a man can father children, leave them and father more children and is often not expected to keep paying for the original lot?
My friends ex doesn't pay for her 2 kids because he went off and had 2 more. Why are men not held responsible for ALL their children?! Women certainly are.

Agree so much with this and that it happens in every area of life. Even at work - if a man takes annual leave to go to sports day, he's dad of the fucking year and isn't it great how he prioritises his children. If a woman does the same she's obviously not committed to her job and a slacker and has been ever since she took maternity leave five years previously.

What to do about it though?

It's a view that is fed to us in the media as well.

In so many films and things, men are presented as useless but well meaning. Fucking everything up but kudos for even trying.

I went to see the incredibles 2 last night where this is a large part of the plot

The bottom line is that men's work and effort is valued in society generally and men's is not. This ends up with rounds of applause when they do things outside traditional masculine interests, "women's work", and across into work where men are valued financially more than women (gender pay gap, phenomenon of occupations becoming less well paid and less well respected as women move into them) and that we are the ones pushed out when the shit hits the fan (austerity).

So really it all boils down to men being amazing and special whatever they do really.

Oh just remembered another example - dance comp for schools locally.
Every time a boy did a "solo" (bit of robot or breakdancing) they got a massive round of applause, whoops, cheers. The girls got a much more subdued response.

We need wholesale change across the world but I suppose we need to start small!

Harold - you beat me to that exact comment. It absolutely boils my piss that I, as a single parent, full time worker and, crucially it seems, woman, get raised eyebrows for diarising school events while my male coworkers are specifically praised for prioritising them.

I once had a woman come up to me in a cafe and tell me I was”lucky” because DH was “a good dad”.

He was sat having a cup of tea while DS has a milk... so was I.

All I remember thinking is that she must mean he is actually present!

Yes! to the previous posters who mentioned the, “my partner hits me, talks to me like shit and financially abuses me but I can’t leave him because he’s a GREAT DAD” threads.

And also the, “my husband BABYSITS” his children.

Arrrrggh!!

What to do about it though?

Well for a start women themselves need to recognise it and start calling out. Way too many examples given here are of women reinforcing this ‘bare minimum is fantastic’ narrative.

I get this from my mother. My dad was largely absent from my childhood and paid very little child support over the years. My mum thinks I should be greatful that my ex is a bit better than this and that I shouldn’t rock the boat too much, or demand any more than the bare minimum lest he buggers off completely! Depressing.

Reading the thread about austerity, the comments about and by single mums struck me. In most situations apart from widowhood and single parenthood by choice (adoption for example) each child has two parents, yet the financial responsibility seems to be split very unequally, with often the mother working flat out with little help from the father.

I think as well as the parents names being recorded at birth, the NI numbers should be noted. Surely the systems are sophisticated enough to be able to ensure the NR parent contributes proportionately. Its so wrong to leave a child in poverty and then start yet another family and treat the next child/ren differently.

Yes! to the previous posters who mentioned the, “my partner hits me, talks to me like shit and financially abuses me but I can’t leave him because he’s a GREAT DAD” threads.

I felt that way about my ex for ages. I sat and told my solicitor everything he has done to me including sexual, physical, financial and mental abuse. And I finished it up with “...but he’s a great dad to the kids he really is” she made this face literally and said “social.... you’re in a refuge because he is a danger to you and your children. Don’t forget that ok?”

Took me a month after that conversation surrounded by amazing strong people who had only my best interests at heart to realise he isn’t a good father. He’s actually one of the worst fathers ever. I can totally understand why when people are at rock bottom they want to tell themselves “ahh well he’s a shit to me but at least I don’t let him treat my kids badly”. Even though these men are fucking dreadful to the children.

DH and I work shifts, so sometimes I take DS to baby swimming, sometimes DH does. And the swimming teacher commented to me how nice it was to see a dad there, and more so how DH looked like he was enjoying it, because the few times a dad does come they tend to look like they've never held a baby before.

In our case it has helped that we split childcare between us, it has forced DH to up his game far higher than if we worked standard hours. But I still do far more of the shitwork.

Gran22 some men will deliberately only work temp jobs/chop and change jobs/hide their bonuses and take a minimal salary on paper/Go cash in hand to avoid deductions at source. I know my shithead uncle quit his job deliberately rather than pay maintenance to his ex.

People are always saying to me 'I bet he's a great dad' about my husband. His siblings, or friends... He's an ok dad. He plays with her, loves her, puts her to bed, provided for her, listens to her, reads to her. Takes some interest in parenting research etc (though i have to do most of this). But what's so great about all that? It's the minimum. He's a dad not a fuckwit. And sometimes he's not so great at all- he's an alchy for a start.

I'm a fucking amazing mum but people don't go out of their way to say so.

God, this in spades but not just fathers and their children, just men in general.

I often talk to my young adults about how the bar is so low for men it's non- exitent. I've lost count of the number of (mostly) women telling me how lucky I am that my H is "a good one", or "one of a kind" because? He doesn't drink or play around. I dont do that either but my H never gets told the same.

I say, and tell him too as he's liable to believe this shite, that I don't do those things either and it's not because I'm amazing it's because I'm just a decent human. Just like he is 🙄

@SocialPiranha

So sorry for what you’ve been through. Even if he was perfect to the children directly, the very fact that a man treats the mother of his children like crap makes them a crap father. Children learn by example. Glad you escaped.

I remember my mum giving me a real lecture on how unreasonable I was to expect my fiance to do half the housework and half the childcare. The same woman who had extremely high academic and career expectations of me. She didn't see the contradiction.

Totally agree. It's not just non resident fathers, seems to be a very low bar for men in general.

Abusive men are 'great dads'. Men seem to be able to opt out of home life because they work 'full time' (whether or not their partner also works). It's absolutely insane.

We're expecting a baby in a few months and the only thing DP won't be doing is breastfeeding.

Yes good point about the bar in general. “He’s amazing because he doesn’t cheat and doesn’t get pissed round his kids every weekend and takes them out instead”

No he’s not amazing he’s just a nice human. As am I. But I’m pretty sure nobody told him “she’s a keeper” because I have stayed faithful and don’t get wankered round our kids

I actually questioned myself (for about 2 minutes and then came to my senses) when I first started reading Mumsnet because of the number of posts admonishing tired mothers (complaining that they did everything in the house, took on all the mental load, were up all night with the baby... who wanted their Hs to do less of their hobbies and more around the home) with “He deserves time off, he works full time” .

My DH has a team he delegates to at work including a secretary who handles his mental load, overnight cleaners in his office, a driver or unlimited taxis at his disposal, maintenance people on call if needed (he had to get a lightbulb replaced the other day 🙄) a variety of restaurants to chose from, and his daily working hours are 8 hours, a third of the day, 5 days a week.

Yet I bet I would have been told the same thing if I had had cause to complain about his not pitching in when at home.

I can’t decided whether the posters that dole out this “advice” really mean it or whether they had it hard and want others to as well...

Low expectations indeed.

I totally agree. I get completely fucked off people comparing apples and oranges not being paid the same at the BBC when we have this huge, glaring feminist issue that demands immediate attention.

It's the greatest feminist issue of our day, I'd go so far as saying, and we're being utterly put to shame by the US and their commitment to the relentless pursuit of deadbeat dads.