Setting the bar low for fathers

[GoatWithACoat]

The more I observe IRL and on parenting forums, the more I feel frustrated at the parenting bar being set so low for non resident fathers.

Examples; “Ok he doesn’t pay but at least he sees them” (twice a month)

“Well at least your ex pays, mine doesn’t pay anything so you should be grateful”

I’m not sure if I abandoned my kids, rolled up twice / once a month and paid the bare minimum required by law to raise them people would consider me a great mum.

X Factor last year, several single mums came to audition. One single dad came on and they ran a VT showing him feeding and playing with his daughter like it was the most incredible thing ever.

Was in the park a while ago and heard a couple of women go, ‘awww look isn’t that lovely.’ It was a bloke pushing his kid on a swing!

AIBU to think that in general, the bar is set so low for fathers and the attitude that women should ‘be grateful’ for any crumbs of parenting / domestic chores completed by a man, is really damaging?

This does annoy me a lot.

Because of various things, this year my ex had only seen his children for 2 hours supervised access every week. And virtually no financial support for the last 18 months. Fair enough. He's had fairly serious things to deal with and the 2 hour thing was my insistence (he had since agreed it was totally the right thing to do).

BUT. That means that I've had the kids 168 hours a week. And done EVERYTHING including dealing with the fallout of it all. And protecting them from the worst of it.

I've fed, paid for, done every 'night shift'.
I take care of their physical, mental, social, health and education needs.
I look after their home and environment, manage the fun things like friends,holidays, birthday parties and cinema trips.
And I have to keep myself well enough and mentally stable enough to try and do all that well.
All on my own as family is a long way away.

I'm a fantastic mum and have dealt with this year brilliantly. But when i next see my parents it will all be about how hard ex has it and no acknowledgment that I've done something amazing by myself.

I don't mind ex having support. Goodness knows he's needed it. But while he's been dealing with largely self inflicted problems I've picked up everything.
And it's just expected.

@GoatWithACoat totally agree. We need an attitude shift though- as part of our culture.

@Wilhamenawonka totally get your with the parents thing. My mum is the same.

My ex cheated various times and then left and moved to the other side of the country.

2 dcs, one with special needs and I'm alone.

Ex turns up at ds birthday yesterday in his lovely clean new car and new clothes etc. I'm there after not sleeping the night before due to ds disability, clothes I've had since 2014, messy hair....not been to the hairdressers in over a year....running around like a headless chicken as I've organised and done everything for this party. Made sure ds got some lovely gifts (obviously where the sacrificing the getting hair done and new clothes comes in).....and my mother comes up to me and says 'oh look at 'the ex', I do feel sorry for him not getting to see the dcs grow up'

Yep cheers for your support there mum 👍🏻

YES, Wilhamena. It's just expected.

Then there are all the women who love nothing more than shaming other women and victim-blaming them when they ask for more help aka as a man pulling his own weight in life and doing his fair share with posts about how she should have known better than to procreate with a twat, when I had triplets I discharged myself a day later despite having Ebola and I whipped up a massive lasagne and lentil soup for DH's family because giving birth is a bodily function just like taking a shit, the poor man works FT doncha know you scrounging layabout who refuses to make his lunch every day and suck his dick every night, of course he shouldn't give his ex as much maintenance when he sprogs off with yet another woman because if they were all living together as a family there would be less money to go round etc etc etc bollocks like this.

I mean, just look at Boxsets post, again, shame and blame for the woman, all her fault for procreating with a sexist cock but hey, he's off the hook for being a selfish bellend and procreating himself.

I wonder how it varies when talking about an ex and when taking up with a new partner has existing children. I think the double standards then don't help.

The ex will likely not be good enough where as the new partner will be hailed as a hero for EOW access and making a financial gesture towards x, y or z.

To see it from another point of view. We are moving away from this. Feminism is making more of an impact. I saw a sign today. "Men on the left because woman are always right blah blah" it was the first time I saw it was a pretty offensive sign!

It's often completely innocent and inadvertantly encouraging men to step up. Pathetic? Probably. But every little helps.

100% agree.

When i go out i am asked if dh is babysitting, when i say or dh says he is out there is nothing said.

I made all the pureed foods for my baby for weaning in big batches. The one weekend dh does a few he is given so much praise and gushing by family and friends. Same as when he did a few night feeds and both working!

His boss also was annoyed when he said at his interview that he would be doing either drop offs or pick ups for child care or couldnt work there. Said as mum its my job, why doesnt your wife do it all!

AIBU to think that in general, the bar is set so low for fathers and the attitude that women should ‘be grateful’ for any crumbs of parenting / domestic chores completed by a man, is really damaging?

YANBU. It simply shouldn't be acceptable. Nobody should be getting in a relationship with/having a drink with/tolerating the company of people who abandon their kids.

Funnily enough my ex hasn’t seen Ds for 8 years. I do it alone with no family support, he has additional needs but I doubt anyone is impressed . I live in housing association , claim wtc because I don’t earn enough . Drain on resources no doubt.

I agree completely op.

I agree with everyone else that most people's expectations of fathers are very low. Most people still have very stereotypical assumptions about what men and women do.

It works both ways, of course. Over the years (I'm now in my late 50s) I have been praised for many things that no one would praise my husband for: being a parent who also does a full time job, doing all the driving (including abroad), painting and decorating, DIY eg including installing wall lights, tiling a kitchen, and putting up curtain rails. My mother was even amazed that I could do something as simple as change a plug (not that there is much call for that skill these days)!

I sometimes wonder if things are getting worse. My Dad (born in the 1920s) was a good cook, very hands on in terms of childcare and could sew (he once made a pair of curtains and a long black skirt).

My experience is a bit different; DH's ex is the one who is nrp, doesn't pay a penny and only sees the children EOW and half holidays. No-one says anything about this. Obviously the children think she's wonderful. I don't think they realise she is supposed to pay maintenance and we don't mention it. Even though the reason DH has residency is because Ex is now married to a child sex abuser this is minimised by her family and most of them think my DH is the bad guy.

So she does the same as a deadbeat dad but it's essentially ignored.

I know that this happens much, much less than the other way around but it's another angle.

@Starlight345 I've been there - hugs

Agree x10000. My xH sees our DC 4 days a month and pays bare minimum maintenance. He is no doubt revered amongst his friends for being a great dad that sees and pays for his kids but in reality, he does basically fuck all for them. They rarely ever go out anywhere with him ffs.

I’ve always thought if it were the other way around and I saw them four days a month and on those days just sat around in my house with them, I would be shot down as a terrible Mother but somehow it’s acceptable for him because he’s Male .

DD's dad didn't do anything, contributed nothing financially, he was the opposite of helpful and often abusive. Nothing I said or did could change this. It felt very hurtful and unfair when people blamed me for his behaviour. I had no control over him whatsoever. He wasn't a reasonable human being you could discuss things out with or reach a compromise. He lied about everything, to himself and everyone he knew. I never understood why people thought his behaviour was my fault.

In the end he took his own life. It was a shock. But life is a lot easier for us now that I don't have him or his terrible behaviour to deal with. I feel so sorry for single parents who have to continue dealing with difficult or abusive ex-partners. Their behaviour is not your fault.

Nerdy it's not right when women do it either but there are women in my family who have all but abandoned their kids, and beleive me, plenty is said.
With dads, as long as they are doing the absolute bare minimum it's all good as far as most people are concerned.
Any sign of them actually being decent parents and it's medal time.
I never ever slag their dad off to their faces and never will. I want them to make their own minds up on their father
I know, and it's hard. I never did either-in fact tried so hard to facilitate contact. But they get to 12/13 and they realise just how little these deadbeats have done for them. Even if they don't get the financial implications, there's no closeness.
It makes me sad too. Dp has done more for my son than his own father and he's not even living with us. It's just a question of being present , even more than money (although the money would have helped! )

Some men don't pay, quit their jobs or pay the minimum but equally there are millions of women that don't financially support their child too or do the bare minimum.

To put it simply - no, there aren't. Women are the ones finding the survival of their children. Men owe £4billion to their children.

I could not agree more.

The non-existent bar for men is so infuriating when women can never be good enough.

Just one example - I am happily married to a man. We both work, but he is a paediatrician working in an acute specialty, so my work comes a distant third after his work and childcare, since his whole working life is an emergency and service provision comes first. It’s actually a pretty shit deal for me but I knew what I was getting into.

A brilliant work opportunity came up for me which involved a three week overseas trip. To enable me to go DH took full three weeks off work, even though he could have gone to work when the DCs were in school/childcare.

We still joke about the praise he got at every corner - apparently, he was AMAZING for doing that. People were seriously asking me if I cooked and froze all their meals to sustain them for the best part of the month. I mean, WTAF? He’s a grown man with a responsible job, why could he not feed his own kids some breakfast and dinner?

I came back from the work trip and DH went off to do some training courses and conferences, also for the best part of the month. Not one fucker even asked me how I was and I bet none of DH’s colleagues were asking him if he batch cooked for me and the kids to make up for his absence.

It’s actually a running joke in our family. Every time DH does some pretty ordinary parenting, such as putting the kids to bed or feeding them, I always tell him he is AMAZING. My DM, brought up to expect very little of men, is still a little shocked at my irreverence.

Unfortunately society still views men as the providers and women as the nurturers.

Completely agree.
My mum was a single parent too. I am a single parent. Exh is a deadbeat. Even my mum will say oh but he does love them and oh this and that. My exh is so much worse that my dad and my dad was grim.

Nope it's the most frustrating thing. I have an ex who has our daughter once a fortnight. When I brought up maintenance he got very defensive and told me the child maintenance service have told him he does "more than is expected of a single father and doesn't have to pay." This is bullshit but I'm not paying £20 for him to fight about it and not give anything other than minimum because he works cash in hand.
He has another child with another woman and pays for this child, but doesn't see them and hasn't in 7 years yet claims the mother is a money grabber and I'm a.control freak.
He gets praise for being a part time parent but doesn't even provide clothing for his daughter when she's with him as I have to send things for her to have.

I agree so much. It is horrible.

Had to get the police involved because ex husband has been harassing me constantly. Police took details from me. She knew he has been violent - has criminal record for this, neither child wants to see him because of his behaviour. He is paying nothing.

She rang after talking to him and told me he had got quite emotional when talking about his children and she sounded really sympathetic to him.

Totally agree OP. Ex and I share childcare 50:50 and have no financial quibbles, which is better than when we were together, but I still have the mental load of appointments and knowing what's needed for school etc.

He is constantly hailed as an amazing dad both in person and on social media when ever there's a picture of him out with the kids. Even by those who know I left because he was controlling and aggressive, even by people who know me better than him and usually by women. I can only assume they have very low expectations.

Yep! It's bullshit and it doesn't wash in this household! And neither DD or DS will be brought up to think it's ok either. Do I think it's cute when OH plays with the kids? Of course, it's lovely to watch them all together, but that's only a snippet of parenting and I doubt he'd expect praise for it!

I sometimes wonder if things are getting worse.

I think so too.

Maybe it's time to teach children from an early age (junior school age) that "find 'em, fuck 'em & forget 'em" is a really bad idea, as both parents are both responsible for the well-being of any offspring. Wether it be moneywise or emotional etc..

Those "Robot Babies" sound like a good idea for both sexes, while they're still in school.

My Dad (born in the 1920s) was a good cook, very hands on in terms of childcare and could sew (he once made a pair of curtains and a long black skirt).

Your Dad was a really great guy.

I wonder if it was a case of nessecity in the 30s:- if you can't get work, then you'll have to look after/care for your younger siblings?