To be unsurprised that Corbyn is still being called anti-semitic?

[crunchymint]

Corbyn has been quite happy over the years to work with those who are clearly anti-Semitic. And he continues to do so. Whilst at the same time saying that he condemns all forms of racism, recently changed to say he condemns anti semitism. Does he not realise yet that people judge him by his actions, not his broad statements which are pretty meaningless? And until he clearly shows in his actions that he condemns anti semitism, these allegations will continue?

Clearky the response is all 3 banana

It’s move among here nothing to see and all Corbyn supporters are reasonable kindly supportive left leaning folk

Who somehow manage to condone and support a mysogynistic anti Semitic bully rabble like momentum.

‘Tis baffling.

Come back to us David milliband. We need international rescue.

when Jewish communities and individuals and MPs are speaking out about how they feel about antisemitism under Corbyn, and you deny he is racist, what are you saying

d) So I can understand, please be clearer re what the anti-semitism is (understanding that I am critical of the State of Israel's incursions into Gaza and the West Bank and therefore not going to accept criticism of this as evidence of anti-semitism).

spartacus

Read the thread and you will see all your questions answered. Pretty simple really. Pages of Jewish posters explaining their feelings and experiences and nothing to do with critisisting the actions of a state

Oh, I've seen plenty of expression of feelings. But no examples of tangible and actual anti-semitism. What are the actual equivalents of 'Trump pussy-grabbing' if you get my drift?

So I can understand, please be clearer re what the anti-semitism is (understanding that I am critical of the State of Israel's incursions into Gaza and the West Bank and therefore not going to accept criticism of this as evidence of anti-semitism).

Just a couple of examples here

Distinct lack of condemnation or action by Corbyn or the NEC :

1. Labour Students at Oxford University Labour Club mocked the Jewish victims of the Paris kosher supermarket attack, called Auschwitz a ‘cash cow’, and used the Neo-Nazi slur ‘Zio’, according to extensive testimony from Jewish students. After months of obfuscation, including an NEC decision to not publish a party report that concluded there had been ‘some incidents’ of anti-Semitic behaviour, Labour’s NEC decided not to discipline the key perpetrators.

1. A Jewish Labour MP, Ruth Smeeth, was sent a 1,000 word death threat from a Corbyn-supporter calling her a ‘yid c–t’. The threat followed Smeeth’s decision to walk out of a meeting outlining Labour’s response to anti-semitism because she was accused of working ‘hand in hand with the right-wing media to attack Jeremy’. Smeeth then received 20,000 abusive messages and has since questioned whether Labour is still ‘a safe space for British Jews’.

1. A Labour council candidate in Peterborough, Alan Bull, shared anti-Semitic material online which claimed that the Holocaust was a ‘hoax’. The Labour party was made aware of the posts in 2017, but only suspended the candidate when contacted by the Jewish Chronicle in March 2018. Bull says he has never denied the Holocaust and re-posted the article in question to find out what his friends thought of it.

1. A former Labour parliamentary candidate in Witham, John Clarke, shared a Neo-Nazi meme saying the Rothschild family has used money lending and Israel to ‘take over the world’. He said the meme ‘contained a great deal of truth’ and was later suspended.

1. Jackie Walker, formerly vice-chair of Momentum, said Jews were the ‘chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade’, criticised security for Jewish schools, and said Holocaust Memorial Day was not ‘inclusive’ enough. After the comments were made and widely condemned, Corbyn shared a platform and campaigned alongside Walker.

10. Nasreen Khan, a Labour council candidate subsequently barred from standing, asked: ‘What have the Jews done good in this world?’. She said schools were ‘brainwashing us and our children into thinking the bad guy was Hitler’ and said ‘Jews have reaped the rewards of playing victims’.

11. A Labour councillor in Birmingham, Zafar Iqbal, shared a David Duke video on Facebook entitled ‘CNN Goldman Sachs and the Zio Matrix’. The Labour party accepted Mr Iqbal’s apology and claim that he had have no recollection of sharing this video’ – no disciplinary proceedings were enacted.

12. Andrew Slack, a councillor in Chesterfield, was suspended after sharing an anti-Semitic meme of a blood-smeared, hook-nosed Israeli soldier. The meme said ‘Israel was created by the Rothschilds’.

13. Pam Bromley, a Labour Councillor in Lancashire, posted links to an antisemitic article entitled ‘World War 3: Trump Begins Paying His Homage to Rothschilds,’ commenting ‘we must remember that Rothschilds are a powerful financial family (like the Medicis) and represent capitalism and big business’. Bromley is still a Labour councillor and no disciplinary action has been taken.

14. Terence Flanagan, a member of Hampstead and Kilburn CLP, compared a Jewish councillor to Josef Goebbels and, when calling for his expulsion, referred to former Labour donor Michael Foster allegedly as ‘the Jewish millionaire’. Flanagan was suspended, but then readmitted to the party after formal written warning.

15. Labour Party member and Momentum Teesside activist Bob Campbell has shared an image of a rat marked with a Star of David and claimed Israel controls ISIS. Campbell denied to the press that he had been suspended by the party.

16. In 2016, Aysegul Gurbuz, a Labour councillor in Luton, resigned after tweet surfaced where she said Hitler was ‘the greatest man in history’.

17. Far-left activist Gerry Downing, a Labour member who claimed the existence of a ‘Jewish question’, said ‘elements of the Jewish-Zionist bourgeoisie… have played a vanguard role for the capitalist offensive against the workers’, was expelled after then Prime Minister David Cameron brought his case up at PMQs.

18. Terry Kelly, a councillor in Renfrewshire, wrote that the ‘American Jewish lobby is extremely powerful and it has its boot on Obama’s neck’ and that the film ‘The King’s Speech’ might not win an Oscar because ‘there is a powerful Jewish lobby campaigning against the film because of its historical inaccuracy about Hitler and the anti-Semitism’. Mr Kelly was temporarily suspended in May 2016 before being reinstated a month later.

19. Max Tasker, a Labour Councillor in North Wales, posted Youtube videos to his facebook page with entitled: ‘Is ISIS good for the Jews?’, ‘The whole story of Zionist conspiracy: the filthy history of pedophilia, murder and bigotry’, ‘Not for the immature! Zionist Antichrist will rule the [New World Order]’ and ‘Ukraine’s anti-Russian stance is a Zionist masterplan’.

20. Rebecca Massey, a member in Hove, tweeted that ‘Israel has Tory and Labour parties under control’, and believes Labour’s anti-Semitism crisis is ‘manufactured’. No action was taken and Ms Massey went on to be appointed Treasurer of Hove and Portslade Labour Party.

21. Mohammed Shabbir, a Labour Councillor in Bradford, tweeted the conspiracy theory that Israel was behind ISIS, accused Jews of ‘playing the Holocaust card’, and said the BBC was run by a ‘hasbara media cartel’.

22. Corbyn supporters in Bristol erected a 100 foot banner that depicted Theresa May wearing Star of David earrings, alongside anti Conservative slogans. Local Labour MP Thangam Debbonaire slammed the banner as anti-Semitic and it was taken down.

23. Jeremy Corbyn defended in 2012 an anti-Semitic mural in East London that depicted Jewish bankers playing a monopoly-style game on the backs of the poor. He has since apologised.

24. Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter of support for Stephen Sizer, a vicar disciplined by the Church of England for sharing an article on social media entitled ‘9/11: Israel Did It’.

Links to all the original stories are here https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

Yes it's the spectator but decide for yourself if you think all of the anti semitic tropes are all imagined or just Jews being over sensitive

Yes, I would be interested answers to this question as well.

What is imo extremely important in this discussion are demographics. About 14% of the UK have anti-Semitic views according to the ADL (2015, which is a definite rise compared to 2014...). Which are 5,900,000 people.

But only 263,346 people are Jewish (2011 Census).

Being anti-Semitic or at least condoning Anti-Semitism may therefore be a political advantage... Which is imo something to be very concerned about.

And when voters that do usually care about minority rights feel like concern about Anti-Semitism is just whataboutery, propaganda or Zionists being scared (which was suggested on this thread, btw)?

It paints a bleak picture. And gives people like Corbyn and his friends to be as anti-Semitic as they want to be...

But no examples of tangible and actual anti-semitism

So, those that are being victimised are crying wolf? Wow.

Oh, I've seen plenty of expression of feelings. But no examples of tangible and actual anti-semitism. What are the actual equivalents of 'Trump pussy-grabbing' if you get my drift?

Yeah so holocaust jokes and abusive messages to Jewish MPs calling them y*d cunts, Jewish blood libel, murals with hooked nose Jews sitting on piles of money. Yeah I mean that's all nothing, right?

Bananafish81
My last post, on this thread.
Can I be truly honest I obviously so thick, I shouldn't vote or comment with the middle class degree educated on here, and not a Corbyn cheerleader, I am concerned about Jewish fears, I listen to the likes of L Burger and others, and read a piece on a Dutch girl and the Nazi's and cried. I do think the Labour needs to discipline its members and MP's, and throw out bad people from all sides.
My only concern is a some of the complaints seem to complain about everything to do with Corbyn.
I am truly sorry if any of my fellow citizens feel uncomfortable live in my country.
Sorry that's pathetic, I know but like I say I know I am too thick to add anything to an adult conversation, so I will leave you well educated middle class ladies to it.

Finally, I could have told you in 2015 we would be exiting Europe, as I am one of the uneducated masses who shouldn't be allowed to vote, but campaign to stay I did, lost 67 to 33%.
It was you super educated ones, who where shocked, how out of touch you most have been.

Finally, for all the abuse I have taken, I still care more about education, social care, hospital funding, access to CAMHS and lack of funding, university fees, lack of jobs and the effects of Brexit and interest rate rises. In a maximum of 4 years, My wife, Ds1 and I will vote, their and my vote counts as much as yours. How scary must that be for the likes of justanotherlurker, seasawrise and you. I use mumsnet and the news and SM, to help inform my uneducated mind, all this thread has done is make me realise I am thick, certain posters love mocking you.
But I will continue to try and improve my understandings.

I now just know to keep bloody quiet and continue to vote like I always have, and watch it when people don't understand why we do.

Bye.

Yeah so holocaust jokes and abusive messages to Jewish MPs calling them yd cunts, Jewish blood libel, murals with hooked nose Jews sitting on piles of money. Yeah I mean that's all nothing, right*

Er no. Not all nothing. But apart from one post above (which I am reading with interest) I have not seen this spelt out, evidenced and linked directly with Corbyn.

None so deaf as those who don’t want to hear or as another poster famously said up thread ‘I don’t really care’

Thank you bananafish. I'm reading with interest because this is the first time that this has been actually articulated to me.

nothing directly linked to Corbyn

Are you serious? Really?

Dear oh dear

Not calling certain attitudes out / not making it very clear that they won't be tolerated in the Labour party means that Corbyn is linked to Anti-Semitism....

Idk whether you remember this, but there was this... Incident (?) of Ted Cruz thanking pastor Mike Bickle for his support and defending his comments...

Bickle is the chap that said things like "God would rise up the hunters" against Jews who would refuse to convert to Christianity... And that "Hitler was the most famous hunter in recent history.”

Said pastor also preached that "a significant number of Jews will be in work camps, prison camps or death camps" before Jesus' coming.

Being willing to accept help from people like that means that Ted Cruz either condones or encourages Anti-Semitism.

The same goes for people from the other side of the politician spectrum.

The company Corbyn keeps, the Anti-Semitic views he has (at least) condoned are what connects him to Anti-Semitism...

Er no. Not all nothing. But apart from one post above (which I am reading with interest) I have not seen this spelt out, evidenced and linked directly with Corbyn.

But he's the leader of the party. The NEC are the party's governing body. The unwillingness to acknowledge these incidents until no longer possible to ignore, and lack of condemnation is significant. His willingness to look the other way is stark. They're linked with him insofar as it's his party and he has repeatedly been unwilling to do fuck all about them.

"8. Jackie Walker, formerly vice-chair of Momentum, said Jews were the ‘chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade’, criticised security for Jewish schools, and said Holocaust Memorial Day was not ‘inclusive’ enough. After the comments were made and widely condemned, Corbyn shared a platform and campaigned alongside Walker"

This isn't Israeli politics. This is pretty clear cut antisemitism.

This article expresses the intransigence to actually do anything about these issues.

This independent headline puts it well for me

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-march-mural-luciana-berger-jackie-walker-a8274331.html

"Jeremy Corbyn is not antisemitic – but he needs to accept that some of his devoted followers are
Corbyn must face down an extremely difficult problem. Labour’s mad hard left are emboldened by having a man they view as one of their own in charge"

Corbyn’s stated and beautifully expressed desire to stamp out anti-Semitism is articulated many times in letters and newspaper articles. But that's not the same as actually taking serious and meaningful action.

yetanother Please see my post with a Guardian link. When I posted the actual picture Corbyn defended, Mumsnet deleted it as it was too offensive to even be on this site.

user

Er always best to let it all out.

Keep up the non stop humanitarian work, radio interviews, campaigning, hiding refugees and those at risk of honour killings, saving donkeys etc. Ok I made that one up. You are clearly tireless.

Good on you all for voting too. I have to say I personally don’t find that fact scary in the slightest. Not really sure why I or other posters would. Btw I don’t have a degree and I too predicted Brexit.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/sadly-we-still-cannot-trust-jeremy-corbyn-over-antisemitism-a3823241.html

"Corbyn wrote in yesterday’s Evening Standard that “anti-Semitism is a poison that must be challenged wherever it raises its head”.

"We asked that Labour put in a fixed timetable to deal with anti-Semitism cases; Corbyn and his team said that would not be possible.

We asked that they should expedite the long-standing cases involving serial offenders Ken Livingstone and Jackie Walker; Corbyn made only vague commitments.

We asked that no MP should share a platform with somebody expelled or suspended for anti-Semitism; Corbyn said he could not give us that guarantee.

We asked that there be transparent oversight of Labour’s disciplinary process. Corbyn was not forthcoming.

Thousands of British Jews did not demonstrate outside Parliament just for a few lawyers and another newspaper article; they demanded action and so do we. We will hold the Labour Party to account for any future failures and continue to represent the interests of British Jews with clarity and resolve"

I am the op. I care about lots of other issues as well. I am unemployed, disabled and affected by many of the Tory policies. Starting a thread on Antisemitism does not mean that other issues are not important.

In terms of Corbyn, I expect him to challenge antisemitism when he hears it. I have not heard of one example where someone has said anything antisemitic on his presence and he has challenged it. Even when he has hosted a meeting where antisemitism is expressed or he has been the interviewer. He has also supported on two occasions people who were clearly antisemitic and were being censured for it.

I expect some Corbyn supporters will dismiss that and not see it as evidence of antisemitism. But that just makes me despair.

And increasingly I think Corbyn is actually a bit thick, misogynistic and antisemitic.

Seaside
I haven't done much since having kids.
Much of the above you love to take the piss out of happen when I was 16 to 25. I joined the SDP at 16, stayed with what was left of it when it merged with the Liberals, also was part of the TGWU for my sins.
Lately we just help out trying to raise funds for a friends breast cancer support group, which advises anyone with breast cancer how to get treatments, local advice groups and benefits and next door neighbours homeless charity. We all do 10k races anyway, so combine both and raise money, they win we have fun.
Looking into giving blood again, as we are O- and they are appealing for it locally.
I am off to look at my to do list,
Understand whatabouttery
Educate myself,
Stand in front of mirror and rip out my racist and anti-Semitic core,
and never post on here again, like brexit.
I truly am thinking of abandoning this place.
Bye

Hear hear crunchy

user

My garden needs weeding are you free this weekend?

Sorry, I notice you all ignored that I was the only one who tried to answer Bananafish's question honestly.
Just read your post again, are you a mind reader, DW sponsors 2 donkeys at the Donkey Sanctuary, but that might be because they had them on her parent's smallholding as a girl.
Sorry working today 0500 to 1445 and tomorrow night 2230 until 0815, then have my own to do.

Totally and you have an absolute right to your opinion that everything in momentum is rosy. No racism or mysogynistic view. Self ID all fine, the KKK supporting you again all fine. Nothing to see here move along please hmm

I never at any point mentioned Momentum. Once again - I posted my opinion solely on the tweets to the hashtag. (But fwiw as Momentum are now at odds with the LP re Peter Willsman, and are getting it in the neck from all sides, I would imagine that everything is far from rosy ... but I digress.)

There is racism, antisemitism, and misogyny everywhere in society. Horrific, but true. Therefore it must exist in the Labour Party (and every other party and organisation). I never at any point said otherwise.

Re. David Duke supporting Corbyn, on Twitter on 2.2.17 he called Corbyn 'THAT MARXIST FILTH'. Doesn't sound very supportive to me.

Re. self ID, I didn't mention that either, and what does that have to do with this thread? That's a whole different chapter of the 'Get Corbyn' agenda, no?