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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be disturbed people think fathers rights are priority during a womans labour?

153 replies

Littlefluffyclouds0 · 01/08/2018 12:23

I’ve seen the discussion pop up loads recently, and I’ve been totally shocked by how many people (especially mothers) genuinely believe that a woman should not have the right to choose who is there witnessing her labour. So just wondering how common this view is, as I feel quite strongly she should have EVERY right.

Mainly regarding the fathers rights - I’ve seen so many people passionately defending the right of the father to ‘experience’ the woman’s labour and her birthing their child. With absolutely no regard for the woman’s wellbeing, the fact stress hormones can stall labour and make it much more painful, the fact there could be complications and the fact that she is in labour and should be treated with as much consideration and respect as possible. But according to many, the fathers rights to be a spectator to her labour come before everything else.

It also seems an argument which gets brought up is the fact she has had sex with him previously and therefore lost the right to have a say over her body anymore. Which I find quite a disgusting viewpoint too - often said in a graphic way by the person using that as a point..

I feel like it’s worth a mention that I have no personal bias - I very much wanted my ex at the birth and felt completely comfortable with it. But the thought that there are many who would have forced me to have him there against my wishes is really disturbing to me.

Obviously this is totally not related to once the child is born - but the labour and birth itself.

AIBU to think it should be the labouring women’s choice who she has with her during the birth, or should fathers have the ‘right’ to be there regardless of the woman’s wishes? Flowers

OP posts:
user1471450935 · 01/08/2018 17:02

As a man and father of 2 Ds. One is 18, it was seen as the norm to be at the birth. Out 20 couples at nhs birth classes only couple not having partner there was a lesbian couple.
God my father and fil where banned.
But then neither ever changed a nappy, bottle fed or did much childcare or house work either.
I think I fed both as often as DW, evil formula users. Plus changed as many nappies too.

But if DW said no, I would have happily dropped her off at doors and gone home for the 16 hours 1st labour took and 9 second one took. Her choice. But hell would have frozen over before MIL would have agreed to be birth partner. She is 47 years later she traumatised by her 1970 birth experiences. Forced shaving, washing and giving birth on her own with 2 cold unforgiving midwives and no pain relief. They didn't believe in it.
At least I could ask for changes when DW birth plan needed to be abandoned and stand up for her choices whilst she was in agony.

Or maybe we should enforce MIL 1970 birth on all women.

Of the 30 friends all partners attended every birth, at each mother's request.
I know no one who demanded to be there. The midwifes expected us dads to be there. You where seen as strange if you said no.
I did offer to lend the midwife our calving ropes, at first birth. But she and DW said no.Smile

BlancheM · 01/08/2018 17:37

I totally agree with you. The number of times I've seen people say a mother-in-law should be present as it's 'only fair he's a parent too and if yours is there, his should be' is woeful.

HollyGibney · 01/08/2018 17:44

Very few people would say he has the RIGHT to be there against her wishes. Very few.

I have to say I have seen and heard this many times, not on MN, Poor Menz Have Rights Too only becomes a thing on here after the birth when a mother asks for advice about contact. But I have seen and heard it often over the years.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 01/08/2018 17:46

Pretty sure, as a patient, she can get him removed from the room at any time she wishes tbh.

SpecialBond · 01/08/2018 17:54

FB is full of bollocks. Strange that you would conclude that this view is endemic based on that.

Original poster
Littlefluffyclouds0 · 01/08/2018 17:58

Special- as mentioned in my OP I spoke to two people IRL who also had the same view Confused not as extreme as some but still thought the father had a definite ‘right’ to be there.

OP posts:
notacooldad · 01/08/2018 18:03

Some people don't know their rights from their elbow!!
They think they do, that's why the come up with this shit.
As for this gem If a woman with no body issues or embarrassment bars a man who is an exemplary, supportive and kind husband ‘ just because I say so’ she’s note exactly going to have a huge band of cheerleaders what a crock of shit and why would she care if she had a band of cheerleders or not. Fuck all to do with anyone else.

stayathomer · 01/08/2018 18:14

I agree with most above and then at the same time do honestly feel bad for men sometimes because we want them to be involved but not to have more rights than us. We want them to actively participate, but fully on our terms. In my mum's stage she said a lot of women didn't have the father with them because it was expected of them and they would have loved them to be. It's their child too when it comes down to it, of course they want to see that both the baby and mum are safe, I don't fully agree that if a woman decided to not have him there then that's fair.

MingeUterusMingeMingeYoni · 01/08/2018 18:20

You feel bad for men because women have the temerity to want both the normal adult human right to bodily autonomy and for men to actually do some parenting? Wowsers. What it must be like to have a dick.

stayathomer · 01/08/2018 18:24

You feel bad for men because women have the temerity to want both the normal adult human right to bodily autonomy and for men to actually do some parenting?
Do you see what I mean though? You're asking a father to be a parent sometimes but not have a say in everything such as the birth? And, um, I'm a woman! (just in case you thought I wasn't!!)

Autumnintheair0 · 01/08/2018 18:24

Stayathomer if it’s not fair that a woman decides she doesn’t want to labour in front of the babies dad, what exactly would you propose.
If a woman doesn’t want the babies father there what should happen? That men can insist to be there, in the interests of fairness and their rights?
It is fair that a good father sees his child.
It is not fair to force any woman to have spectators at the most vulnerable time of her life.
Not everyone’s partners are supportive.
You have no idea how common things like sexual abuse are, how many women never disclose this, and how triggering labour can be.

Even if emotionally emotionally well adjusted why should a man have access to view a woman’s naked body?
It may all be well for you if you have had easy births, a supportive partner and a happy life free from trauma.
But please spare a thought for these women trying to get their child safely into the world and their rights to privacy dignity and respect.

stayathomer · 01/08/2018 18:27

Sorry Autumn, I think I was just looking at it from the pov of the nice dads out there that get a rough deal. Sorry

MingeUterusMingeMingeYoni · 01/08/2018 18:28

Literally not at all stayathomer, no. It isn't a remotely complex concept to expect a father both to act in the interests of the birthing woman and his unborn child and respect her wishes, and then to also take an equal part in parenting thereafter. Once it stops impinging on anyone's rights to bodily autonomy. These ideas are both very simple and not at all contradictory.

And no I didn't think you were a man. I just thought your sympathy was deeply misplaced.

SubtitlesOn · 01/08/2018 18:31

?

Autumnintheair0 · 01/08/2018 18:33

Don’t be sorrystayathomer.
I just feel like sometimes people get carried away with rights about this and that. When really the actual physical act of childbirth, all it should be about is mum and baby being safe and well.
I can see yout point, that there are many dads who get a rough unfair time with regard to parenting. I’m terms of mother’s denying access when there is no need, and this is very very wrong.
I think access to a child is where the focus should be for fathers rights.

Melamin · 01/08/2018 18:34

Quite

marvellousnightforamooncup · 01/08/2018 18:41

No not about the father's rights at all, only the child's. What's best for the child is paramount, if that is seeing the father then fine. If the father is an arsehole his rights can fuck off.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/08/2018 18:59

Had I told my dh I didn’t want him there, he would have been ok about it. But he was there for me because I wanted and needed him by my side. This is very much a time when a woman decides. I understand the baby being born is the father’s child. However, the woman isn’t an inanimate object.

AngelsSins · 01/08/2018 19:04

For those saying he should have a right to be there, would you also agree then that if he DIDNT want to be there, the woman should have the right to force him to be? If not, why not?

Autumnintheair0 · 01/08/2018 19:10

Angelsins of course he shouldn’t be forced. Fathers would have their own reasons for not wanting to be there and these should be respected. Fathers may be dealing with their own traumas in a medical setting or a million other reasons they don’t want to see the mother of their child give birth.
Men also have free will and the right to choose what they expose themselves to.
Plus the fact if they don’t want to be there, what kind of support would they be anyway?
In this instance the women would have to look at another support source - friend/mum/doula.
But just as much as a man may fell dissappointed if the mother doesn’t want him to be present, he should accept and get over it.
The same goes for the mother who wants father to be there but he doesn’t. She would have to acccept his decision and free will, may feel disappointed but not aggrieved.

AngelsSins · 01/08/2018 19:28

Autumnintheair0 I agree they shouldn’t, that’s why I was directing my post at people who DO think a man has a right to be there.

noeffingidea · 01/08/2018 19:33

I've had 3 babies, the father (my ex) was present at all 3. If I was doing it again he wouldn't be, in fact I wouldn't have a birth partner at all. It would just be me and the midwife. I think my ex would probably have preferred not to be there, tbh, and I didn't really need anyone supporting me.
I do feel that some people feel pressurised into having the father there, and also someone mentioned about being persuaded/pressurised to be at the 'business end' when they didn't really want to be. That is exactly what happened to us and it's something I've never forgotten.

LlamaPyjamas · 01/08/2018 19:54

People would be up in arms if you tried to suggest it was legal for you to rape your ex because you had sex with her in the past. Having sex with someone in the past does not give them rights over your body in the future, whether for sex or birth or anything else.

RummidgeGeneral · 01/08/2018 19:59

Jeremy Kyle took the position on one of his shows that an ex partner had the right to be at a birth. I was horrified, and amazed nobody said anything to challenge that view. (Apologies for watching it btw. I was ironing and it was on.)

Autumnintheair0 · 01/08/2018 20:05

Ah right I misread you angelsins sorry about that.