to think my 9 year old is an entitled twat

[blehh]

I grew up in poverty. Parents sharing a tin of beans for dinner, sharing a bedroom with my brother in a flat so small it can't even legally be let as a dwelling any more. We never had holidays, spent summer at 20p church hall clubs, and clothes were from charity shops. As an adult I have been through some hard times, literal starvation for days.

I have a 9 year old daughter. She won't remember but we have queued at food banks and soup kitchens together. I have missed meals so she could eat. We had a hard few years for a while.

Now I have a great job and earn well, and I have tried very hard not to spoil her. It's tempting sometimes, because I can if I want to. She gets the occasional comic, we have McDonalds once a month or so, new clothes when required but half of them from charity shops. We give back to charity shops, always stop at homeless people and buy them a sandwich, and have nice days out. I didn't get her a tablet computer until a couple of months ago. We still eat the value range foods because I am cautious.

So I have been surprised lately by her awful, entitled attitude and I don't know if or how to nip it in the bud. She sulks if I say no to a comic. She demands I buy her things in the shop and shouts at me when I say no. She puts things in my shopping basket and tells me she hates me when I take them out. She loses coats and jumpers and lunchboxes on a regular basis and retorts "well you have loads of money, buy me a new one!". We go to the cinema once or twice a month, and share a pick n mix as a treat, and she has started to get gobby about not wanting to share. She tore a school library book up.

I encourage her to do chores for pocket money - 10p at a time - but there are also basics that are expected, like making her bed and picking her clothes up and not littering. She has started to refuse to help around the house at all.

This week she refused to make her bed, saying 'well Barbie can do it' (Barbie is my friend who does 2 hours cleaning a week - she started when I had a nasty accident - I don't really need her any more but feel it would be rude to let her go!). I bollocked her for it and said that Barbie is not here to do her bedroom, that's her responsibility. (I keep my house pretty immaculate, and always make sure it is tidy for Barbie, so she did not learn that attitude from me!)

She breaks toys and doesnt take care of them. She doodled on a brand new rug with permanent pen and shrugged when confronted. Her attitude absolutely stinks.

I lost my cool today and told her that if she doesn't quit her entitled brattery, we are going to spend a week living like we did five years ago so she can understand what life used to be like. Tinned spaghetti for days on end, no lightbulbs, no tablet, no TV, no taxis, no trains, bag up and give away toys and clothes to charity, and go volunteer in a homeless shelter or food bank for the week. It would be grim as all hell but maybe it's the shock she needs to really understand her privilege? I don't understand where it's come from - she sees her dad on weekends and his family make a few jibes about me being 'loaded', but I mean, we don't even have a car and we rent our house. I dress in H&M and charity shops, am not flash with money, and cannot believe the crap she is coming out with right now. Am I being unreasonable?

Secondly, my daughter has no idea I pay Barbie. I've never discussed it. She has met her once and I said she gives me a hand keeping the house tidy. No mention of money. And I'm not about to fire her because jesus, I work 6am til midnight - I can afford some help. I have never said I am 'skint'. I'm not looking to cut down my household budget. I was asking for tips on dealing with an entitled child.

I am not emotionally abusive. We have a lot of fun, quality time, positive reinforcement. We have nice days out - we have made a scrapbook of nice memories for the last 4 years - there are dozens of them, written by her. I am concerned at the culture of entitlement we all live in and frustrated that my daughter is rude and demanding.

I would focus on the money side of things because it can be used to help the behaviour, careless with things etc

Firstly I would buy a money counting piggy bank, and get some bags of change from the bank. Have a list of chores that she can choose to do and how much she will earn, and give her that as soon as she's done it so she can see immediate reward and how it's adding up in her piggy bank. Totally separate from pocket money and I wouldn't suggest she does them etc, just leave a list and explain how it will work in future, if she doesn't want to do them that's fine but she doesn't get the £ either. I think 10p to £1 is fine for small things, it's up to her whether she thinks it's worth it or not

Secondly I would sit down and work out on average how much you spend on extras a week (cinema, McDonald's, extra snacks etc) and tell her there is £X treat money to spend each week and carry it around in a separate purse. If you normally get 1 packet of biscuits and she wants to get 2 that's fine, but it comes from the treats budget. If she wants to go to the cinema that's fine, but you won't have enough left to go to McDonald's as well. Wants a big bag of pick and mix? That's fine, but there goes the budget, suggest going to a shop on the way and she can choose cheaper sweets and there will still be money left for X but ultimately it's her decision. Let her make mistakes and blow the budget as it will help her make better decisions the following week, if she wants to do something then give her the purse and let her work out if there is enough. It gives her more control over the situation and stops you being the big bad mum who has to say no all of the time

If she destroys something then you don't have money to replace it, explain that you only have that £X treat money so should it come out of that or could she pay with her pocket money? Consequence of her actions is there is now no money in the treat purse, it's not you being mean but that's all the money there is and now £10 of it has had to go the library to replace a book, have we got enough left for cinema now, no well that will have to wait until next week

Seeing real money can really help, kids now see parents handing over plastic and getting what they want, so it doesn't seem like it's real money being spent.

She sounds like she is lashing out at you and picking your weakest spot. I grew up poor and I confess that I am indulgent with my DD1 now. However, I am a believe that you can’t spoil children with stuff. She gets loads, is pleased as punch to receive anything but (at the moment anyway) is ok with being told no. I do worry about the issue that you are having though.

I remember as a child always worrying about money. I used to hide letters from school where there was a cash requirement as it just caused tension or arguments. By the time I got to my teens I felt pretty bitter and exhausted by it if I am honest. My point here is that maybe she doesn’t fully understand the issues but feels the pressure from you. You are asking her to have a lived experience of something of which she can’t really.

I might be inclined to set some boundaries which are not related to money but rather manners and respect. Just talking about values can encourage children to consider their own values and what difference they make.

Could you try not mentioning money at all to her for a while?

Sorry. Not sure how helpful that is. I can tell how frustrated and concerned you are.

No advice, but I hear you. I have a whole house full of twats.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

@blehh next time she says you have the money to replace it, look confused and say you don't, who keeps saying you hwve money? Find out where the attutude is coming from

I understand about you not wanting to spoil your child op but it seems to me you might be going too much the opposite way.I mean 10p is really mean-most self respecting 9 year olds wouldn't get out of bed for less than 20p. And surely you could get her a weekly comic, with the bonus that this could be something to take away from her for bad behaviour,as opposed to withdrawing basics like nutritious food and light for goodness sake!

You know what OP? I think you’re doing a fucking amazing job, you work hard and spend time with your daughter, she has treats but you are also careful to ensure that those treats are well not coming from credit.

I’ve got two 9 year olds, but they’re totally different so I can’t offer any advice really on your particular situation (btw yes they absolutely act like little twats sometimes!) but I love your ‘work for 27 minutes now imagine how long it took for me to earn enough £ to pay for that for you’. Excellent learning point.

Actually I do have advice. Just take a step back. If something is broken or lost - too bad. You’re not replacing something because of her carelessness. If she kicks off in a shop, ok fine - embarrass yourself all you want, I’m not buying it.

@NutElla5x fuck sake at least read OP’s responses. Her daughter gets a fiver a week pocket money and can top it up 10p at a time by doing extra chores.

Don’t punish your child for the past and how you feel society is. Who made you the society’s moderator?

I think you sound unhinged

If she's getting a fiver for doing fuck all she's not going to want to do jobs for a measly 10p then is she Diana

So then she doesn’t have to, does she?

The options are - get your fiver and spend it. Get your fiver, realise you want something more expensive, so do jobs to save up.

I’m shit at budgeting tbh but if 10p per job (like she mentions, bring down the cups in your room) fit in her budget then why would she double it because kids ‘won’t get out of bed for less than 20p’.

“My ex is like you. He loved in poverty and struggles to manage normal behaviour in children because keeps relating to his childhood. I’m not saying the behaviour is ok, it’s not. But it’s normal, it just needs to be managed, with calmness. If your past doesn’t let you do that you have a problem”

OP in the nicest way it sounds like you have a bit of a tense relationship with money. It’s affecting your life now which is a shame. Sounds like your child is feeling hard done by which makes me wonder if her peers are more comfortably off than you two are? That’s not a criticism, I just wonder if you could try to see things from her perspective. Even if you disagree with that perspective

You work 6 am till midnight? Whose actually minding ur dd then, maybe this is where attitudes coming from?

I don't really think kids should be paid to get out of bed you know Diana .I don't even think they should be paid anything at all to bring their cup down,that's just ridiculous.It all seems very confused to me, and I wouldn't be surprised if the child is confused,especially if she's got her dad in her ear saying stuff,and maybe that's why she's acting up.

I will shut up soon I promise because I seem to be irritating OP.

I think working from 6 am to midnight is totally punishing.

Is your daughter at an age where you need to say and show her.....look this much is coming in, this much is going out, heres what I can afford.

I think its sad that society is pushing materialism onto children 24/7 and its very challenging for parents.

Just came here to see if anyone would comment about how no children are twats, they are all poor misunderstood angels with awful parents. Swear mumsnet is another planet

In your original post op you say you have a great job that pays well,yet in later posts you say you have to work 3 jobs.So which is it? And if you work 3 jobs why don't you just drop one of them so then you won't have to worry about spoiling your daughter so much but can actually spend some time with her instead.That's maybe what she actually wants more than the stuff.

NutElla that's explained lower down the thread. She's earning £22k. Whether that's just the main job and she gets a few K extra from the others, or the main job is, say £18k and the rest is from the WFH stuff it's not clear. But earnings in that ballpark could sound a lot to someone who's spent considerable portions of their life destitute, whilst still being an amount which most MN posters would see required a tight budget and buying value products with little room for extravagance, especially for a lone parent with a child and an ex who can't afford to contribute.

If she wants to try and save for university for her daughter, or if they live in an area with cheap housing, a house or flat, it's understandable she would want to make a bit more so there's scope to put money aside.

The OP is only ever going to engage with this thread to justify herself and be increasingly hyperbolic about how hard she works, not to take anything on board.

Working 18 hour days for 20k is an hourly rate of about £4.80 even if you're taking 6weeks holiday, which is miles below minimum wage. OP would be better off doing a minimum wage job.

Most 9 year olds are nowhere near as financially entitled as the OP describes her 9 year old as being, despite the fact most household incomes are higher.

Something is wrong in that child's life, might be her dad being poisonous, might be the OP being obsessed with money and messed up psychotically by her own history of poverty, it's hard to tell. It's not typically and it's not because the op hasn't subjected her to extreme poverty boot camp.

A good therapist might be able to get to the bottom of it perhaps...

blueskies She also said she works about 50 hours a week, and she is able to do the school run in the morning and afternoons, so the daytime job won't be 9-5. 50 hours for £22k works out above NMW (although not by loads). And the main job may provide potential to move to full time hours and higher pay once the daughter is able to travel to and from school herself.

Sorry OP, feel a bit intrusive picking over these details.

I think there's probably a lot of issues at play here and they are culminating into her bad behaviour.

I think perhaps your trying too hard not to spoil her, my parents tried very hard not tospoil me as a child and it was very frustrating and upsetting. It's absolutely fine to not buy her a comic or her own bag of sweets because you can't afford it but it can be frustrating for a 9 yr old if its just because you don't want to spoil her.

Secondly I think you are expecting too much of her in terms of her feelings and understanding of poverty and how you are now. I don't think a 9 yr old should have to feel constantly grateful for a cinema trip and a comic. I think to her this is normal and you are expecting her to have the same feelings towards money as you, which is a lot to expect of a 9 yr old and I think very unfair.

I also think if you really are working 6am-midnight then you can't be spending much time with her and perhaps she's seeing you working, seeing you not spending time or giving her things so saying "we must be rich because mum is always working"

Have you considered giving her pocket money say £10 per week and if she looses her coat/shoes etc she has to pay for it out her own money? If she breaks a toy (deliberately) she pays for a new one. Let her learn the value of money. Alternatively if she breaks the toy it's a cash of suck it up buttercup, and she doesn't get it replaced unless her behaviour warrants being treated.

Alternatively work out how much you normally spend on fun things and show her we have (£200) for treats/days out and fun things. If you loose your shoes we then can't afford to go to the cinema, or if you break a toy and want it replaced we then can't go to x event. So essentially find a 'budget' for the extra and stick to it. Even if you draw the money in cash so once it's gone it's gone. So if she's throwing a fit about this 'well we can't afford that this month, because you broke Y'

What are her friends like? You mention she still gets cloths from charity shops etc. Is she getting to the age that she notices that her friends are bragging that they have this designer and that they have an iPad whereas she has a Samsung?

I also think that your idea is terrible, I think it's really cruel to withdraw light and food from a child to punish them and make them "understand their privelage". Fine take away treats and tablet etc. for a bit but you really can't expect her at 9 to be grateful you have lightbulbs. I think that's putting way to much pressure and guilt on her.

You need to separate her bad behaviour completely from money, she is being badly behaved but that does not mean she is spoilt. Lots of children have a bad patch where they are testing their parents and boundaries, it sounds like she is angry and struggling with something. It could be early puberty, it could be something at school, it could be something her dad has said.

You seem very determined to dismiss all the potential reasons for being badly behaved in favour of her just being a twat, but that's not true. She is a child and she is behaving badly, you could describe it as twatty behaviour but she is not a twat.

My mum was brought up in poverty and she married young. Had me when she was very ill with bi-polar and I was brought up in my first two years by my maternal grandparents.
When she was well, they still didn't have enough. I remember not even having proper furniture. It was orange boxes and anything useful out of the tip.
Fast forward to the early 80s. We bought our first house in a rough area of Cardiff.
Money still a struggle as mum couldn't work and my dad was and still is, too proud to ask for a pay rise, even though he is still working full time past the age of 70!
It all changed in 2002. Mum's bi-polar became very bad. By now I was married and we had our first child and lived over 100 miles away.
In her 'manic state', mum managed to buy over £40,000 of crap off the TV selling channels and wasn't too 'manice' to think about destroying any way of returning the goods.
As I said. Dad is a workaholic and didn't notice. He lost his nest egg. Hence having to work until he drops.
The point is...
At some stage people will lose control over money and it doesn't make them 'entitled' or 'little shits'.
We only have one life and if you have each other, then cherish that.
Money is the root of all evil, don't let it destroy your relationship with family.

OP it sounds like you’re a caring and thorough mother. How come DD is having anger management, could the entitlement problem be linked to anger issues?