to think my 9 year old is an entitled twat

[blehh]

I grew up in poverty. Parents sharing a tin of beans for dinner, sharing a bedroom with my brother in a flat so small it can't even legally be let as a dwelling any more. We never had holidays, spent summer at 20p church hall clubs, and clothes were from charity shops. As an adult I have been through some hard times, literal starvation for days.

I have a 9 year old daughter. She won't remember but we have queued at food banks and soup kitchens together. I have missed meals so she could eat. We had a hard few years for a while.

Now I have a great job and earn well, and I have tried very hard not to spoil her. It's tempting sometimes, because I can if I want to. She gets the occasional comic, we have McDonalds once a month or so, new clothes when required but half of them from charity shops. We give back to charity shops, always stop at homeless people and buy them a sandwich, and have nice days out. I didn't get her a tablet computer until a couple of months ago. We still eat the value range foods because I am cautious.

So I have been surprised lately by her awful, entitled attitude and I don't know if or how to nip it in the bud. She sulks if I say no to a comic. She demands I buy her things in the shop and shouts at me when I say no. She puts things in my shopping basket and tells me she hates me when I take them out. She loses coats and jumpers and lunchboxes on a regular basis and retorts "well you have loads of money, buy me a new one!". We go to the cinema once or twice a month, and share a pick n mix as a treat, and she has started to get gobby about not wanting to share. She tore a school library book up.

I encourage her to do chores for pocket money - 10p at a time - but there are also basics that are expected, like making her bed and picking her clothes up and not littering. She has started to refuse to help around the house at all.

This week she refused to make her bed, saying 'well Barbie can do it' (Barbie is my friend who does 2 hours cleaning a week - she started when I had a nasty accident - I don't really need her any more but feel it would be rude to let her go!). I bollocked her for it and said that Barbie is not here to do her bedroom, that's her responsibility. (I keep my house pretty immaculate, and always make sure it is tidy for Barbie, so she did not learn that attitude from me!)

She breaks toys and doesnt take care of them. She doodled on a brand new rug with permanent pen and shrugged when confronted. Her attitude absolutely stinks.

I lost my cool today and told her that if she doesn't quit her entitled brattery, we are going to spend a week living like we did five years ago so she can understand what life used to be like. Tinned spaghetti for days on end, no lightbulbs, no tablet, no TV, no taxis, no trains, bag up and give away toys and clothes to charity, and go volunteer in a homeless shelter or food bank for the week. It would be grim as all hell but maybe it's the shock she needs to really understand her privilege? I don't understand where it's come from - she sees her dad on weekends and his family make a few jibes about me being 'loaded', but I mean, we don't even have a car and we rent our house. I dress in H&M and charity shops, am not flash with money, and cannot believe the crap she is coming out with right now. Am I being unreasonable?

how do you know somebody is about to start their periods?

No advice as such, but please don’t make your DD suffer just because you did. My mum grew up quite poor in the early 1950s, she had a few p/t jobs from being young (collecting eggs at a farm, mucking out horses) and now seems...well, jealous is the only way I can describe it of me and DB and our lifestyles. She really resented the fact that we got pocket money and disagreed with my dad for giving it to us, conveniently ignoring the fact that as under-10s we weren’t ALLOWED to work, but she thought we should because she had to. Asking for ANYTHING was deemed as being ‘ungrateful’ and one of my most oft-remembered childhood phrases is ‘we can’t afford it’. My GPS used to give my parents money for us when we went on holiday so we could have an ice cream each day.

The reason I say this is because at 9 I had zero concept of rents/mortgage/bills but my mum thought (misguidedly) that if she said we had to live on x amount, we’d be understanding and realise how tight things were. But of course we didn’t. I have often thought as I’ve got older, how could she on one hand not want us to have pocket money but then expect us to understand the concept of money management?

She now seems to think I “fritter” money away on having my nails and hair done. Partly, this is generational (only for special occasions in her day) but when I was unemployed she actually said “Well, you won’t need your nails doing now you’re not working.” Er, why exactly? Because when I was younger I had so little and things like Nike trainers were out of the question, I now buy whatever I fancy when I see it. I can tell from her attitude she resents that I do that (and that DH paid for stuff while I was unemployed and bought me a car when I got a job). Surely as a parent you want BETTER for your children than you had?

Sorry, that was long! The destroying stuff isn’t on, but all kids ask for stuff.

My thoughts are you sound too harsh and I think that’s why you are getting a hard time on MN. The continual telling her about poverty could be making her anxious. I have never heard of children having to spend a week living on tinned spaghetti to be taught what it’s like to be poor, she is only nine years old. Your attitude is hard so expect your child to have a hard attitude. I believe middle of the road is the best way to bring up children, lots of affection, but reminded of manners and how other people feel. Appreciation and sympathy for others I.e. that man over there looks like he is homeless, it would be really hard to live like that. Threatening for them to spend time in poverty won’t make them understand. Nine year olds are children who keep a lot of things to themselves and worry a lot. This often comes out in anger issues.

If your DD doesn’t make her bed sometimes let it go, don’t be so hard on everything. I know twelve year olds who hang out washing and do dishes, vacuuming but they aren’t expected to have perfect bedrooms, just have to put their clothes in the wash. At age nine they weren’t on boot camp but did some jobs and helped cook, set the table, helped clear dishes, the basics.

Lots of affection, more hugs and tell her everyday that you love her and she is your favourite person. Build her up, not down. You can never give a child too much love. You are hopefully bringing up a well adjusted future adult not a mixed up anxious adult who looks back on an unhappy childhood.

Nine year olds do expect a lot and are the perfect examples of Pester Power. The cheekiness she is showing is hard for you to deal with but we do live in a material world and children see all this ‘stuff’ and they want it too. If they lived in a place where everyone lived with the bare essentials they wouldn’t think to ask and would be happy with very little.

You sound like a very hard working mum doing her best OP. I hope things work out for you and by the time she is a teenager things will be different. In my extended family the children are not the easiest, some serious pesters amongst them and by the time they get to around twelve they have turned into nice people and have not become moody teenagers.

The demanding things from shops does seem entitled but the rest of it seems like naughtiness and not unusual for a 9 year old, though not acceptable either. i do not consider i was especially spoilt but at that age i could sometimes think my parents could be "mean." so i do not think you have raised a monster. but maybe the week of living in poverty thing might be helpful to her? i never really knew any poor people at that age and i am sure it would not have harmed me to learn a bit about what poverty is like, simply to help me count my blessings

How did the counseling for anger management come about?

It sounds like you "share" a lot, and that she now wants some things of her own, for herself. Does she have to share at her dad's house?

You are putting guilt on her for wanting things for herself, and that's not good. What does she put in the trolley that you take out?
Why do you take it out?
Can't you compromise and say something like "you can choose 2 things at shopping this week" (state a top value is you like) Don't put a clause on it.

I don't think she is spoilt or entitled, I think she is growing up and wants some control over what she has, and to not have to keep sharing. You say she is gobby about not wanting to share...is she, or did she just ask for her own sweets and get upset when you said no?

and im not vocal about finances to her. Not vocal no, but your actions say it all. She is 9. She knows. You put a value on her tablet, a gift you bought her, why? You do seem to have this need for her to know the absolute value of everything!!! And that isn't going to achieve anything. You can teach value without using monetary terms.

You are obviously working very hard to support you both, but I think you may have lost sight that your daughter is growing up and wants a little more freedom with somethings.

You aren't a soft touch, no. But I think you are a little OTT with financials, and involving her. My dd's take care of their tablets, and they don't know their value in "hours worked" terms, but they do understand that they aren't cheap and they need to be taken care of, or they aren't replaced.

Not right to call your daughter a twat.

She sounds pretty normal to me, they all go through phases of being a bit obnoxious. She'll outgrow it.

Your cautious with money but you have a cleaner??

You say no to a comic but you have a cleaner??

Sorry but why do you want your kid to know what its like to live in poverty when you don't any more. It's ridiculous. Oh and YANBU on the whole calling her a twat thing we all think our kids act like twats at times. I'm just not totally sure I agree with you your kid is probably like wtf you're telling me no but splashing on on Barbie... and let's be fair as money seems so important to you let barb make your kids bed get your moneys worth

OP your feelings of anxiety are evident from the words you write. I can pick up on it. Your DD is picking up on your anxiety and acting accordingly. I imagine that she is a stressed little girl. Why is she in counselling for anger issues?

Stop living as if you are still impoverished. The way you pay 10p per chore, buy second hand clothes, share sweets at the cinema is likely to embarrass your daughter. Your budget allows for new clothes and a bag of sweets each. Let her enjoy spending on treats.

I know you are doing your best but don't let your past prevent you from being frivolous and having fun. Her rude, cheeky, entitled and angry behaviour is completely normal. That's what 9 year olds are like. They are a complete nightmare at times!

I was reared in a house where money was very tight. I distinctly remember being 9 and hearing rows about money. It caused me massive anxiety. My dad discovered how anxious I was about money (whole other story!) and sat me down and reassured me that we were ok and it was his job to pay the bills not mine.

I remember that exact conversation over 40 years later. Children know what goes on in their home. Your daughter doesn't miss a thing. She can read your mood at a glance.

Be happier, enjoy life, take her out for a fun surprise day and spend some money. Give her her own money to spend. Have a laugh.

You are on top of the finances and you have everything you need. Just enjoy life while you can.

im not vocal about finances to her.

You told her how many hours it takes to work an amount of money.

I agree with posters that bringing up poverty all the time is projecting.

Make her feel safe that she will be fine; not near poverty again. I wouldn't even mention money for a while.

At this age she's creating her identity. She might want what her friends have or the latest trend and that's normal. I think you're micromanaging a bit withh 10p tasks and she's pushing back for freedom. If you want her to do something ask but don't have money as a topic again.

Tell Barbie you don't need her services anymore now that your foot has healed.

Think hard about why you are reluctant to have that conversation. She won't judge you. She will probably just be glad that she was employed by you for longer than she expected in the first place.

There is something going on here for her to suddenly be talking to you like this.
There is no point to making threats or depriving her of food to punish her. That just makes it worse.
You need to talk and she is too young to be very good at it so you have your work cut out for you because you love your daughter and need to know what happened to your relationship.

Also, please remember that what you want her to be grateful for seems like meanness to her. You have a ways to go to be on the same page.

I think you are right, OP. My parents struggled financially at times when I was growing up but I was ok with learning that you do chores for your pocket money (other friends got theirs for nothing) . My parents improved things, to the point wherever could and did send me to private school ( which I hated, but was a means to an end).

Now, thanks to all the sacrifices my parents made, I earn well, and my DH does ok too. I too am often frustrated at how my young teens take it for granted. It's difficult. I also make them do chores for money, I think it's right they realise the value of money.

I think all kids can be twats sometimes, as can all adults. Remember she is still learning.

We went to Alcatraz, and I bought this magnet for the fridge.

Any whinging or bitching about what they get and they are referred to the fridge.

She will whine, she will bitch, she will complain. It isn't YOUR problem.

As for lost hats and coats etc. I found they stopped being lost when I stopped replacing them. My two have their own money from birthdays etc. They were given warnings that the next time they would have to spend their own money to replace what was lost or they would go without. Then I enforced it when it happened.

Stuff doesn't get lost anymore.

No blehh, your attitude towards it is emotionally abusive.

Making a child who's fault it is not that you were poor feel guilty for having and wanting things now your not is a shitty thing to do.

I agree with Ska

It is not your daughter's fault that you were poor growing up nor that you were poor when she was a very young child.
You sound really angry that your 9 year old daughter is pushing boundaries in a pretty normal way for her age. It is not unusual for a child to want what she sees around her and not to understand the difference between needs and wants... it is up to us adults to explain this [repeatedly sometimes] in a calm and rational manner. But not to berate the child for wanting treats and 'luxuries' as you call them.
It is not acceptable to call your 9 year old child a twat

We don't have a democratic household.

We have a benign dictatorship.

Time to let Barbie go. You admit you don't need her but are keeping her on out of some sort of obligation. Your daughter thinks you/she have "staff". At that age she might not understand the difference between a cleaner for a couple of hours a week and a housekeeper/Nanny. She is still young enough to be testing boundaries and with puberty oncoming hormone surges can signal unreasonable behaviour.

I'd stop the loans to EX, another self-imposed obligation you really aren't obligated to fulfill. Also I understand in the back of your mind that you always temp those hard times with you, but you don't always need to be so austere in relation to your food brands and treats. I'm sure you can find the balance.

Sorry that should be "keep those hard times with you".

I would let Barrie go, and tell your daughter that from now on she’s cleaning her room and has to earn everything she wants. I suspect her attitude has come from her dad’s family though.

Sorry but I think you're massively unreasonable- she's not a twat she's a child
Ah, what's the minimum legal age for twattery again, is it 16 it 18? Or is it 10 so it tallies with the age for criminal responsibility?

Of course the OP hasn't called her child a twat to her face. Jesus fucking Christ
OP, you sound like a totally brilliant mum, who is doing the best you can. My 8 year old turns 9 on Monday, and she can definitely be a bit materialistic and entitled at times. Her father definitely doesn't help with this.
Your austerity week idea just doesn't sit comfortably with me. I'm not sure why. Of course you could have a week of no comics and treats, but that's as far as I'd take it. It sounds like you are already doing all the right things, in talking to her about her behaviour and implementing consequences.
It WILL sink in, and you will get there with her, but it just takes time.
ps as a kid, I'd have hated to share pick n mix. I am a very kind and generous individual, but hate sharing food even still . Maybe it came of being from a large family, and never really getting treats. Anyway, maybe a smaller bag rather than being made to share it and yes, I will probably get flamed for this

Firstly I suggest people should read through all the postings before pitching in with their 'opinions', some of you are quick enough to judge but to lazy to read before spouting off tedious ill informed comments.

We really are becoming a 'cotton wool' generation, comments such as "ohh my eyes are rolling how you could call your child a twat" Get a bloody grip, wake up and smell the coffee, if you are offended by that you need to get out in the real world!

Let's get real here, children these days are put on pedestals and parent(s) for the most part panda to their every need. The said Child(ren) don't appreciate the time, effort, or hardship that said parent(s) might have gone through to provide these items.

OP you stick to your guns, you have done absolutely the right thing, and yes if the self entitled attitude is still being displayed then I would do a week of getting back to basics. In fact the majority of people could benefit from this adults and children alike.

There comes a time in everyone's life when they realise that the world is not handed to them on a plate, and need to be able to adapt to it, without running home to be wrapped in cotton wool. I deal with a lot of young people who are fresh out of school/college/uni. How on earth do they manage to get to work on time amazes me, but it doesn't because mummy or daddy drive them to work, because god forbid the little darlings should have to travel by public transport or shock horror walk!! And if one of the little darlings is 'sick' mummy or daddy ring in on their behalf... he's so poorly they cry down the phone, yet nine times out of ten little cotton wool socks, has spent all his wages on Thursday night, rolled in at 2.30am and is still to wasted to go to work.

OP I am proud of you to confess up your child has these tendencies, because we live in a world where nowadays children are perceived as 'perfect' and the opposite is actually true. The majority of young people are selfish, self indulgent and self entitled and egotistical, because of cotton wool parenting. The harsh reality is that even today you want something your going to have to work for it.

One of the best things any parent could give their offspring in my opinion is a reality check on how hard life can really be for many people, instead of depicting it as fluffy clouds, smart phones, and your wish is my command parenting.

I don't have these behavioural problems with my kids but then I'm also not imposing draconian rules on them all the time. Not all kids are selfish entitled brats

I think you're trying to blame your daughters behaviour on the fact that you no longer live in poverty when in fact it's just normal pre-teen angst.

However I don't think paying 10p for chores and confiscating her tablet for 27 minutes (why not 27 hours at least?) is going to teach her any kind of lesson.

Personally I don't believe in paying money for everyday chores - everyone who lives in a household should take part in running it and nobody should be paid for doing basic housework that needs doing anyway.

I would also get rid of the cleaner - you don't need her (as nice as she may be) and she's not really helping your situation at the moment.

Stop runnng your home like a democracy if you don’t want her to feel entitled and equal. She’s your daughter, not your housemate.