in thinking that democracy just isn't working...anywhere?

[ThisLadysNotForGurning]

Take the UK...seems to be in complete crisis over democracy, partly due to Brexit but also the whole first past the post system. So you get either Torys or Labour-and that's it. (And if the Liberals can't succeed against the others in the current situation, I can't see them ever doing it.)

Or how about 'The world's greatest democracy'? Which really isn't much of a democracy. Or any country with PR- which seems like a bit of a bodge.
Or anywhere wih crap education-how can citizens actually make informed decisions if they are kept ignorant?

Is democracy actually possible?

It’s better than the alternative but I feel FPTP has failed

I would rather have had UKIP in parliament and if they were gaining enough support a referendum to have been discussed and debated correctly on what it would mean if we choose to leave how the referendum came about is a disgrace no debate little discussion wtf were the mp’s who supported the referendum bill thinking UKIP in terms of votes was the third party but quite some way

If the referendum had taken place at another time in history say when Blair was at his peak of popularity the result would have been different and I believe also would have been different if Boris hasn’t if put his personal ambitions first

It’s interesting on what is happening in society/with the economy not only impacts what party we vote for but what type of leader we vote for

The NHS is socialism. It was introduced by the nearest the U.K. has had to a socialist government. Pretty much nothing else in the U.K. could be called socialist these days though.

In relation to voting systems, there are lots of alternatives to FPTP. The main arguments against them in the U.K. is that they are too complicated and FPTP gives us stable governments.

I think a voting system that requires engagement might help voters pay attention and as for stable governments....... that's clearly not the case.

3 year old had acid thrown in his face.

And they weren’t from here were they but the liberals won’t have anyone’s background checked before their let in part of the problem

Dapplegrey

Where did I claim that Saudi society had advantages over U.K.?
I said I don't think the uk with its appalling crime rate and children and pensioners suffering assaults is exactly a model society.

maybe we should chop hand off like they do their hand maindens tale style

And army women Lucky just allowed their drive it’s only 2018 your right U.K. no better

user1471450935

And it was the not really soclist labour your beloved
Who brought it in must never forget they started that ball rolling

But then why would they give a shit when they all knew thy would be sending their kids to private a grammer schools the Moët is crisp this time of year

"It’s better than the alternative but I feel FPTP has failed"
"FPTP gives us stable governments."

I think these are truisms that we're fed and expected to believe uncritically. FPTP hasn't given us particularly stable governments in the last few elections, and the coalition was the best of them. A Dutch acquaintance pointed out to me that PR gave them safer governments as it was almost impossible for extremists to create a government there, they might wax and wane but the most they could hope for was to have some say in coalition.

Why should my child end up with debts of £27750, for tuition and £12360 for maintenance, so £40110, when he will the first in his family to go to university

I agree user.
I begged and pleaded with my children not to go to university but they wouldn't listen - they wanted to do what all their friends were doing.
What a waste of time and money.

The argument that the masses were not educated enough for mass suffrage and would make "the wrong decisions" was a common belief amongst the 1920s British intelligentsia. Huxley was an advocate of the notion, for one, during his Pareto phase.

Now just think on that. Just think what Britain would be like today without mass suffrage. It's likely we would have had some form of revolution between the 1930s and 1950s. Think how it would have affected our involvement in WWII (you can't have compulsory military service if people cannot vote). There would never have been a successful Labour party. And considering the flirt with fascism amongst some of the British aristocracy, it doesn't really bear thinking about.

With no mass suffrage, would women have ever got certain rights? It's not that long since women had to get a father or husband to cosign their application for a bank account.

I may not like certain political developments in Britain, but I dislike civil uprisings, authoritarianism and riots a hellova lot more. And for the first time in a long time, Britain is seeing, with the Brexit result, the reality that the country is still the two nations of Disraeli.