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Original poster

4per cent of new dads have post natal depression

336 replies

longwayoff · 24/07/2018 09:55

Says LBC quoting a Stanford University study. Expert currently pointing out that as pnd is female hormone related, its unlikely to be pnd. What does mumsnet think? Personally I have a cynical eyebrow raised.

OP posts:
PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 24/07/2018 18:06

Women are dismissed and belittled at all points of interaction with the healthcare systems

By whom? 54% of GPs are women, the vast majority of nurses and midwives are women, 80% of non medical healthcare workers at the NHS are women, 80% of social care workers are women, why are they ‘belittling’ the concerns of their fellow women or not taking them seriously?

starcrossedseahorse · 24/07/2018 18:39

Internalised misogyny.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 24/07/2018 18:47

I guess men also get baby blues

When the majority of women feel a shift in the mood around 4 days after the birth

You body going through the birth, the body changes, the hormone changes as making milk and healing

Never mind the bleeding

Why can we never just focus of females why does it have to be well men suffer too -it’s boys the same

runingdad · 24/07/2018 18:47

@User183737
I can give you my own experience and I by no means speak for anyone else's experience.
You also may or may not understand this.
The actual incident occurred because it was either the child or me, at the very time I was tired and unable to settle our child.
The birth was not something I was prepared for in anyway shape or form, it is truely one of the most horrific things I have ever seen or experienced. It had a profound effect on both me and my partner that never actually went away. We eventually split up after 15 years.
Anyway following on from that as DC was ebf (which I 100% support and have done with my subsequent children) I really didn't bond well with my child, this grew into anger and resentment towards them. I was struggling to cope with them or understanding their needs. Obviously and rightly OH was caring for the child but felt marginalised and ultimately that I was actually more of a burden than a help. I felt that if I wasn't there they would be better off Financially and they would be able to find someone who could care for them properly.
It is more in-depth than that but i think you get the gist.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 24/07/2018 18:48
  • it’s always the same ....
User183737 · 24/07/2018 18:48

Thank you for that insight dad. I hope youre feeling much better now

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 24/07/2018 19:03

Internalised misogyny

Of course, god forbid a woman might have any agency of their own.

bruffin · 24/07/2018 19:09

Ichyfanny
I spent 7 weeks in hospital for the birth of my ds. My biggest worry was the MH of my DH. It was far more stressful for him than it was for me.

Bowlofbabelfish · 24/07/2018 19:12

pangalactic - one thing that’s really struck me through pregnancies where I have been very very sick indeed and struggled to access treatment is how my husband had had his eyes opened to the idea of misogyny in healthcare.

He has gone from a very ‘of course not, women live longer’ viewpoint to repeatedly being fairly shocked and saying ‘men would never be expected to put up with this.’

Typically female complaints tend to be brushed off: thyroid issues for example. The reference ranges for treatment are vastly broader than almost any other civilised country,
Maternity care - women railroaded into VBAC against their will, consent not sought for invasive procedures. Pain relief not forthcoming when it should be, including for seriously painful procedures like high rotational forceps. Postnatal checks are now a postcode lottery.
Endometriosis - average eight years to diagnosis. Cardiac issues - missed very often (thankfully this is changing.)

One particular incident I remember was having a doctor tell me that morning sickness was normal and I was making a fuss when I’d averaged about fifty vomiting event a DAY for the previous week and was vomiting blood. When I was finally admitted I was so dehydrated it took twelve goes To get a vein. When I had my c section the anaesthetic failed. I was given paracetamol after. No transfusion deapite loosing four pint of blood.

Women are failed again and again by healthcare.

Tailfeather · 24/07/2018 19:13

But if it is depression that happened post natally, then that's what it is! I don't mind it being called PND.

SharronNeedles · 24/07/2018 19:16

Can anyone remember if any HV has or anyone asked your DH or BD if they were okay? No one asked my DH and he ended up severely depressed and tried to take his own life after I had DS.
I was offered loads of coping strategies and time to digest what happened and how my life had changed. He got, here's your baby, now back to work to keep a roof over your families head.

ichifanny · 24/07/2018 19:18

Men’s equal rights in paternity leave and the provision of time with their children etc is something I feel very strongly about and is a whole other story more equality is needed in that area . However I still refuse to let men appropriate the health issues that fave women after childbirth .

Bowlofbabelfish · 24/07/2018 19:30

But if it is depression that happened post natally, then that's what it is! I don't mind it being called PND.

By postnatal, medically it means after that specific person has given birth. Not after a new baby has entered the family.

Men may well need more support and that should be given - however the word PND cannot physically apply to men - nothing postnatal can.

HVs would seem to be the key to checking here as they are the point of contact in the home. Also agree that it should be far more widespread for men to take decent paternity leave - that benefits both parents and the child.

WomanInBoots · 24/07/2018 19:39

The point of medical descriptions is to pedantic and accurate. Surely? Men can't get PND. Of course they can get depressed and anxious due to the life event of a child arrivinh and of course it can be taken seriously. But give it a different name. The hormonal changes and the biology of the woman who has given birth matter! By saying men can get PND it diminishes the importance of the female biology.

BlackCat04 · 24/07/2018 19:48

I don't think it really matters what it's called but it definitely needs to be recognised more and men need more support than what is currently offered.
I had a child 6 months ago and was asked regularly about my emotional state throughout pregnancy and after birth however my partner wasn't asked once and he was at almost all appointments with me.
Instead of arguing that people calling it PND is taking away from the mother, maybe we should be arguing that it doesn't seem to be cared about enough to be given its own name?

SpicyTomatos · 24/07/2018 19:51

Postnatal should refer to the baby whereas postpartum refers to the mother. Postpartum depression could only apply to mothers as it relates to childbirth. Postnatal depression should mean an unhappy baby, but the meaning has changed with time to include mothers. It is not unreasonable to think that it could also include fathers.

peachgreen · 24/07/2018 19:54

I completely agree with @M3lon. PND is a specific thing and shouldn't be a catch-all term for all mental health problems experienced after the birth of a child. I had PND. I did not have situational depression or PTSD from the birth. PND is no harder or easier than those two things but it is different and requires different treatment. It's important to be accurate.

AgentCooper · 24/07/2018 20:04

PND is a specific thing and shouldn't be a catch-all term for all mental health problems experienced after the birth of a child

Totally agree with this. It doesn't mean that a man suffering mental illness after becoming a father is not legitimate but it's not PND (IMO) because a very specific set of circumstances (carrying and giving birth to a baby) lead to PND.

Not sure if it's been mentioned upthread but I've seen adoptive mothers on other sites refer to Post-Adoption Depression as something which can be devastating, but distinct from PND.

Thedutchwife · 24/07/2018 20:04

Men certainly can have depression after their child’s birth but it’s not PND.

Males are uniquely different to females
Females uniquely different to men.

PND is a unique hormone imablance only females can experience.

Why name it something that’s medically untrue ?

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore · 24/07/2018 20:06

yep...its still the case that most women diagnosed with 'PND' don't have anything wrong with their hormones. They are depressed for entirely the same reasons that men can get depressed.

I think this is true and certainly was the case for me. These threads always leave me unreasonably cross because I feel that the posters who want to take the pnd label away from men, want to take it away from me too. And I feel like I need that label, partly to be taken seriously and partly to differentiate what happened to me from any other kind of depression. If I feel like this, then I imagine men feel like they need an appropriate label too and at the moment, the established label is pnd... that's the label used by doctors, counsellors and in the press. Maybe we need a new label... a more accurate label... but at the moment all we can do is use the label we have.

And can those posters who are, for some reason, convinced that men are appropriating pnd (as though anyone would want it...) please find an ounce of compassion. This isn't about men v. women, it's about understanding mental health problems and ensuring that everyone can access the help they need.

bigKiteFlying · 24/07/2018 20:12

pregnancies where I have been very very sick indeed and struggled to access treatment is how my husband had had his eyes opened to the idea of misogyny in healthcare.

DH was the same - luckily was in third pg rather than all - but he was shocked. Prior to that according to him I just needed to be clearer and firmer - he saw me doing that and getting no where.

HV in second place we lived with children were hostile to DH. They objected when he accompanied me - as I wanted some support as I didn't like their attitude and couldn’t get access to bf support- but never made a peep on few occasions my Mum made the trek to do similar.

They even objected with third child when she turned up unannounced and found him in the house with us - his house she was quite rude about him being there. MW had done DV check and I was a regular at children centre and weigh in there so I was seen without him.

FASH84 · 24/07/2018 20:12

Isn't this just situational depression? The same kind that can be triggered by any major life event or incident?

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 24/07/2018 20:16

his isn't about men v. women, it's about understanding mental health problems and ensuring that everyone can access the help they need

I honestly dont think anyone is againt anyone getting the help they need

BertrandRussell · 24/07/2018 20:24

Frankly, I would be very wary of a man who wanted to call what he was suffering PND. I think it would show a worrying level of insensitivity and desire to appropriate. I world suspect he was trying to make a point of sone sort, frankly.

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore · 24/07/2018 20:24

But right now, the established label is 'postnatal depression'. That's the phrase you end up using.

I probably had situational depression but if I had gone to the doctors insisting that I had situational depression rather than postnatal depression, I wouldn't have ended up with the counsellor and support group that saved my sanity... same goes for men at the moment because right now there isn't another label for the depression men may suffer from after the birth of a child.