4per cent of new dads have post natal depression

[longwayoff]

Says LBC quoting a Stanford University study. Expert currently pointing out that as pnd is female hormone related, its unlikely to be pnd. What does mumsnet think? Personally I have a cynical eyebrow raised.

What needs to be done?

I think for women there needs to be much better postnatal screening for post birth side effects for lots of stuff. I know on the birth injuries thread someone made a great suggestion about a questionnaire listing injury side effects. Too many women assume these are normal and don’t ask, and women are now in a postcode lottery for ANY medical follow up (which is bloody disgraceful)
So I’d say that approach and somehow the partner is included too. How you’d do that I’m not sure - HVs could certainly do it on Home visits if the father is around, or another delivery method?

And of course more investment in mental health services all round (hollow laugh. As if that’s going to happen...)

Also - were I to encounter a man claiming to have PND, I wouldn’t say: “Sorry - can I stop you there? I think I should state at this juncture that I believe only women can have PND. Just so we’re clear.” I’d try and help. But I’d have my own opinion, just as I don’t think all morning sickness is HG/all anxiety is PTSD/all bad spelling is dyslexia, and all bloating after pizza is coeliac disease. I’m a fucking loose cannon, me!

Read the thread kitty for plenty of examples of the extremes of the issue for men. Please don’t minimalise it because that helps nobody

Are men going to nick the menopause next , their wives having dry vaginas and mood changes affecting them too ?

Men do not get PND, that is unique to women by it's very nature.

I am sure that men experience depression and the upheaval caused by a new baby may be a factor in that. But let's not label it PND.

But let's not label it PND

I agree. But I also think the time to talk about that isn’t at the point where a man asks for help.

Shall we agree to call it Post Birth Depression as someone said earlier and move the fuck on?

No because calling it post birth depression means women will also be seen to having post birth depression also changing the perception of cause diagnosis entirely . It’s not the same thing end of .

Nope.
A dad can not have post natal depression just as he can't have post ovulatory pain, pre menstrual tension, post menopausal hair loss.

He can have depression, pain, tension and hair loss, and they may coincide with the biological events his FEMALE PARTNER experiences directly as a result of her female biology.

Just as a woman may suffer as an indirect consequence of a man ejaculating but it does NOT mean she is suffering post ejaculatory pain. Nor does SHE suffer from penile dysfunction.

Using biological terms to co-opt a biological and medical condition that does not occur in your own sex is preposterous and something I will not indulge.

I'll turn my attention to men's suffering after a woman gives birth, precisely at the moment we have perfected care for all women who actually Do Suffer PND.

In the meantime men can build their own support networks whilst remembering there is an actual mother in the picture that actually gave birth and actually is enduring the actual physical aftermath of her experience.

FFS.

M3lon8 is correct according NHS pages.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/post-natal-depression/

The cause of postnatal depression isn't completely clear. Some of the factors it has been associated with include:

a history of mental health problems, particularly depression, earlier in life
a history of mental health problems during pregnancy
having no close family or friends to support you
a poor relationship with your partner
recent stressful life events, such as a bereavement
experiencing the "baby blues"
Even if you don't have any of these symptoms, having a baby is a life-changing event that can sometimes trigger depression.

Under myths same page
Postnatal depression is entirely caused by hormonal changes. It's actually caused by many different factors.
Postnatal depression will soon pass. Unlike the "baby blues", postnatal depression can persist for months if left untreated. In a minority of cases, it can become a long-term problem.
Postnatal depression only affects women. Research has actually found that up to 1 in 25 new fathers become depressed after having a baby.

I'm not convinced lumbering men with pnd rather than a new label is helpful but NHS is apparently on board with it.

As for what to do - better screening for men with accompanying more awarness with GP, more support for both parents, more general awareness of impact of babies? I don't know - I still think research into causes and effective preventatives or treatments should be in there as well.

Whatever it's called or labelled it irrelevant.
PEOPLE need support following the birth of a hold into the family.
Women may need a different type of support to men but that doesn't diminish the level of support men need.
It was barely a generation ago the men took nothing to do with the birthing / newborn process so this is relatively new for men. I for one would support any measures that will help men overcome the distress / depression associated with the birth of a child.
My son could be in that position one day and I hope he has more support than what my husband did!!!

Put more succinctly than I can barrakerbarmer . Turning the attention over to men at precisely the time a woman needs it just like everything else in fucking life .

Put more succinctly than I can barrakerbarmer . Turning the attention over to men at precisely the time a woman needs it just like everything else in fucking life

So we should just ignore a man who has depression after the birth of a child?

I think there’s a major problem here both in encouraging men to try and access mental health provision and the way we respond to that.

Not at all jaques they can get medical help as is always offered for mental health issues in men not just lumped in with their wives whom let’s face it psych care for maternity is something we are only starting to get good at .

Turning the attention over to men at precisely the time a woman needs it just like everything else in fucking life

True but one of the most affected by the new Dad's depression is going to be the new Mum - so preventing effectively treating is going to help her. Though I wouldn't be in favour or reduced money services for women in order to treat men.

Its been said before but i think men can be depressed after the birth of their baby ...but its not post natal depression

It should be explained to all new parents, so that they know that fathers can be depressed and are able to access the relevant help

Not at all jaques they can get medical help as is always offered for mental health issues in men not just lumped in with their wives whom let’s face it psych care for maternity is something we are only starting to get good at

With respect mental health provision isn’t always accessible for men. I agree that PND isn’t the write term. However I also think it’s important that is dealt with in a way that doesn’t discourage anyone from accessing help.

Put more succinctly than I can barrakerbarmer . Turning the attention over to men at precisely the time a woman needs it just like everything else in fucking life

Surely though it’s better to put the attention on both? When a woman has a male partner it’s better for her that he is there and healthy, meaning if he is depressed he gets treatment ASAP. Just because a man is getting treatment doesn’t mean the woman is ignored! They don’t allocate one doctor per couple and then say - sorry that’s your lot!

PND isn’t always hormonal (as a PP has just mentioned too) it can be situational. I had post adoption depression so zero hormones involved. The symptoms are identical to PND. And presumably men could get PAD too and no one would query that.

I’m surprised only 4% of men have conceded to having it tbh and I don’t think calling it PND trivialises what women go through. However I think labelling it PND is not necessarily helpful as men may feel ashamed to ask for help for a ‘womens’ condition which this thread has only confirmed tbh

Sorry x posted with others saying the same thing there

M3lon. I'm not up to date with the information you have concerni ng PND particularly with regard to the majority of PND having sweet FA to do with hormones. Could you give us your reliable sources please.

DH and I were both ill after our DD was born. I had severe PND accompanied by the usual suicidal ideation, mild psychosis and irrational thoughts. He had situation depression triggered by the massive change to his life (and me being so unwell). We both struggled but they were very different and required very different treatment (counselling for him, maximum dose Prozac for me). Calling it the same thing would have helped neither of us.

I think both ‘sides’ of this are right. Calling it PND is silly and I do slightly sigh as yet again men seem to be encroaching on women’s territory but no dought men can and do suffer depression which can be triggered or probably worsened by parenthood.

Conflicted because it seems just another bloody thing that’s now being appropriated by men. So of course if they suffer from it then it just be real

Of importance is the fact that anti-depressants aren't usually effective in the case of situational depression. So it is important to delineate between the two things. All the counselling in the world couldn't have helped me. My hormones were fucked. Whereas counselling helped my DH get through the difficult period and he's now much better.

It's not belittling the male experience of depression after a baby - it's making sure the two separate conditions are recognised and treated as such.

Post birth reactive depression is probably a way to describe it for new dads I don't think that minimises mens experience of new parenthood. I don't think anybody meant for it to be depression top trumps but an illness that affects women shouldn't be dismissed as something that men can suffer from as equals.