4per cent of new dads have post natal depression

[longwayoff]

Says LBC quoting a Stanford University study. Expert currently pointing out that as pnd is female hormone related, its unlikely to be pnd. What does mumsnet think? Personally I have a cynical eyebrow raised.

No one is denying men’s experiences they simply don’t have the onslaught of hormones and the resulting imbalances post natally and that’s a scientific fact , they may experience depression just as severe and need just as much care but it’s NOT post natal depression . FFS do we have the right as women to any experiences of our own anymore , all depression needs treated regardless but it doesn’t change the fact women are so vulnerable post natally 1 in 3 women succumb to this and saying men experience exactly the same regardless of any physical changes is trivializing that .

I said nothing of the sort. Please retract.

I mentioned having been on MN a long time. You haven't only ever posted in this thread. This is just another example of your inability to see men the same as women. The definition of equality.

Just to be accurate. Suicide is the biggest killer of young men in the U.K. Women make more suicide attempts.
CALM

saying men experience exactly the same regardless of any physical changes is trivializing that

No it doesn't. At all. Why would you think that? If I have depression and so does my brother- how is he trivializing mine?

What does everyone suggest we call it? PNMND? Post Not My Natal Depression?

youropinions men do experience depression. That depression is an issue and needs treating.

PND has unique causes - you cannot lump it in with all other types of depression, otvhas to have its own label. Why?- Because it needs to have the unique identifier so you can draw up diagnostic criteria for it, and so you can treat it effectively.

Without that, it becomes harder to diagnose and harder to access treatment.

By all means screen new dads - but what we are saying here is that due to the origins and nature of PND, it’s a female ailment. Male depression has different causes and requires different treatment.

Oh sorry, bertrand, globally means the World, not the UK. Should have specified

"I mentioned having been on MN a long time. You haven't only ever posted in this thread. This is just another example of your inability to see men the same as women. The definition of equality."

Oh right. You're talking bollocks. I'll just report and ignore. Actually. I won't report. A deleted post might give you credibility.

Bollocks to equality when it comes to childbirth women get put through the wringer emotionally and physically and hormonally in a way all the equality in the world won’t change .

Yes. Its down to methods, men use hljumping or hang. Women cut or take odd which are more reversable, plus they are more likely to seek help

PND is a specific "thing" Men don't get it. They do get depression. If you listen to the podcast I linked to, you will hear a father taking very honestly about the impact having a much longed for baby had on his mental health.

Oh right. You're talking bollocks

Absolutely the best thing you could have said! Much easier than trying to form a coherent argument.

Definitely report me- sticking up for men is disgraceful! What a hideous notion. Get me off MN at once. Any opinion in defence of men is a WRONG one

Right. Where on this thread have I not supported men?

My friends husband had severe depression to the point he cannot work and tries to kill himself constantly his depression is more severe than my post natal depression he had , he was sicker than me but it’s not fucking post natal depression . There is a distinction and one that’s important for women to be able to get treatment quickly .

My DH really struggled with the birth of both our kids. He suffers mild depression anyway and dd1 had a particularly traumatic birth.
When dd2 was born it was via planned section so I didn't think the impact would be as bad... however he was physically ill for days following the birth. He had severe diarrhoea and couldn't come to the hospital after the 1st night. Looking back we definitely think it was his nerves.
I definitely think the dads need a lot more support than they currently get... it's as big a change to their lives as it is the mum's yet they get next to no emotional support

So what do we suggest start spending already stretched maternity and labour budgets on men ? Are people serious ?

Bertrand that is because men use guns etc that are ensured to work, whereas women tend to be more cries for help.

I am sure that men get depressed following the birth of a baby but I don't think that it should be called PND.

Having a baby does change things in a household and perhaps some men aren't prepared for that change and also for the fact that their partner has a new baby who is their first priority and comes before the man.

PND has unique causes - you cannot lump it in with all other types of depression, otvhas to have its own label. Why?- Because it needs to have the unique identifier so you can draw up diagnostic criteria for it, and so you can treat it effectively

I agree with this. Men may develop depression after the birth of a baby... but it will not have the same causes as PND. To call it the same thing would do both sexes an injustice. Men are physiologically different to women - no amount of striving for equality can change that.

I propose we call the dad version Post Birth Depression, because it’s depression after the birth of their child. PBD. That ok with everyone?

Jesus maybe women will now need to call their PND cis PND.

Is there really anything now that women only can suffer. Of course men can’t have PND ffs. Not denying depression but its not PND.

Opinions. You may not have noticed. Men are not exactly the same as women. Each has specific gender defined differences, one of which is that post natal depression I.e. a hormonal post birth deficiency, is a woman only ailment. Fathers may be depressed after the birth of a child but this cannot be post natal depression in its medically recognised form.

@ichifanny are you serious?????

Right. Brilliant. PBD.

Now, moving on - what should be being done about it? I think fathers being publicly open about their feelings around childbirth and caring for a new baby is really important (which is why I want everyone to listen to the podcasts I've linked to)

Spot on @BertrandRussell

Maybe if men were given more support, less of them would suffer in silence and commit suicide!

So what do we suggest start spending already stretched maternity and labour budgets on men ? Are people serious ?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

More research into causes of depression post birth in women and men would be useful - as it could lead to better prevention and treatments.

Sadly having a depressed spouse increases the risk of developing depression in other partner - so there is clear benefit to both parents and children to such research.

More parental support services would be useful but in current climate of cuts and more cuts - keeping existing services is hard enough.

DH enjoyed a Saturday Dad run playgroup - he found it very useful. When we moved he tried a two other in new area but they were run by women, one by a church and one a children centre, and he said were very patronising and he didn’t keep up.

Knew few SAHD and few part time and shift worker dads who came to toddler groups or helped run them – they said they found them useful but they didn’t find all groups welcoming. So I think it was harder to to find suport as a Dad which I can't image being helpful to mental health.