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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be surprised at how much bullying is treated as inevitable?

366 replies

Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 12:38

On threads where, say, a boy is wearing 'girly' clothing or is in some way different, there seems to be a lot of responses saying 'he/she will be bullied' as though that's a good reason not to do it/not to allow the child to do it.

It surprises me - do people really live in such fear of other people's responses?

My son wears dresses and yes people make silly comments but there's no way I'd say he shouldn't wear dresses because of that - surely that's just teaching him that other people get to decide what he wears? He just brushes the comments off and over time no one even notices the dresses any more. The vast majority of people say absolutely nothing, or even compliment him on his dresses - there are a lot of kind and friendly people in the world!

In my experience, no matter what you do, someone will have a negative reaction/a nasty comment - if you live your life anticipating the negativity and trying to avoid it, there's a lot you'll miss out on.

AIBU to think the response to possible bullying isn't to go ahead and give the bullies what they want ahead of time (ie total conformity) but to develop the resilience to say 'yes you don't like what I do, but I really don't care'?

OP posts:
Failingat40 · 23/07/2018 17:12

Have you stopped to think about how as a teen/adult your son will look back on you buying him dresses and waving him off to wear them in public op?

As a parent it's down to us to guide them. Kids will choose anything to wear if we let them. Most would wear wellies and tutus or Spider-Man costumes all day if they could, it doesn't mean that they should though!!

Has your son ever given the vibe that he's more 'female' than 'male'?

Have you given him a 'boys' name?

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:12

'However resilient one is the only way to deal with severe bullying is to deal with the bullies.'

I agree Larry. I'm clearly not explaining myself very well, which is my fault.

In terms of things you can do with the bullied child changing what they do or how they look won't work. What will have a positive effect on the child long term is building their confidence so that if they do come across one of the world's many arseholes they can deal with it, it whatever ways might be available at the time (the main one being to report it to a teacher or to ask for help from a parent).

It would be bonkers for me to suggest that nothing at all should happen to the bully. I'm not in any way suggesting that and I haven't suggested that in any of my posts.

OP posts:
Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:15

'Right, but attending school in dresses is asking for trouble.'

@GodivaEater, I really want to clarify before I comment further. Are you saying that child who doesn't conform is 'asking for it'?

OP posts:
Pickleypickles · 23/07/2018 17:15

I was a "normal" girl, normal height, normal weight normal features etc. I was bullied for 3 years, beat up by gangs of girls 2 and 3 years older than me every single Friday on the way home because they new the school wouldn't care by Monday, I had hot chocolate poured on me which blistered my chest, I was called every name under the Sun, the house was targeted, we had our windows smashed 6 weeks in a row at one point. I was left suicidal and didn't go to school for a whole year (year 8) until my mum found a school that would guarantee it wouldn't happen there, (it didnt and I settled). My whole life was fucked up by it, the missed school, the lingering anxiety etc. I just wish someone had told me to build my confidence instead of being effected by it and none of it would have happened. Hmm

You are right in that it's the bullies fault not the person's but I'm not going to encourage my child to stick out like a sore thumb because I know how damaging bullying can be. Society should change but until it does I'm going to protect my child the best I know how.

bigKiteFlying · 23/07/2018 17:15

It's not a matter of just throwing a child to the wolves and ignoring how they're feeling. It's a matter of working with them to ensure they're happy and making sure they have the personal resources to deal with situations or to ask for help if they don't.

See I have no issue with that - I do that anyway but part of that for us was letting our DC conform when they felt they wanted/needed to ( not enforcing it following their lead/need to fit in)

I haven't had a child go as far as wanting to wear a dress - but they do have fairly unquire clothing now they are getting older and know that is fine and are happy and confident within their choices.

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 23/07/2018 17:16

Good luck with paying for all his therapy when he is older because mark my words he will need it

For wearing a dress at 7? I know 3 boys of around the same age (one is 5) who wear their sister's dresses in summer. It has never seemed like a particularly big deal. I'll tell the parents to start saving for the inevitable therapy.

Actually, DS1 has put on a dress every now and then in the past. He doesn't tend to anymore, he just grew out of doing it. Unsurprisingly, he seems perfectly fine.

GodivaEater · 23/07/2018 17:18

You are right in that it's the bullies fault not the person's but I'm not going to encourage my child to stick out like a sore thumb because I know how damaging bullying can be. Society should change but until it does I'm going to protect my child the best I know how.

EXACTLY. This is what I was getting at.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:18

'Have you stopped to think about how as a teen/adult your son will look back on you buying him dresses and waving him off to wear them in public op? '

I would hope that he'd look back and say 'thanks for letting me be who I am and not trying to make me be different.'

'As a parent it's down to us to guide them. Kids will choose anything to wear if we let them. Most would wear wellies and tutus or Spider-Man costumes all day if they could, it doesn't mean that they should though!!'

I don't see why a child shouldn't wear a Spider-man costume if it's right for the weather and safe? Obviously if the school has a uniform then they should wear that but outside of school, what does it matter?

Has your son ever given the vibe that he's more 'female' than 'male'?
No

Have you given him a 'boys' name?
Yes (strange question!)

OP posts:
bigKiteFlying · 23/07/2018 17:19

You are right in that it's the bullies fault not the person's but I'm not going to encourage my child to stick out like a sore thumb because I know how damaging bullying can be. Society should change but until it does I'm going to protect my child the best I know how.

Though this summarises my view - especially when they were younger - now they are older they get way more say because frankly they know their school and peer group and fashions better than I do.

So no at 4 they wouldn't nbe sent to school in a pinafore dress - though at 7 not sure what I'd have done if DS was dead set on dress - possibly found out what he liked and see if some compomise could be found with what he likes and what is socailly acceptable. Now at 11 he'd get way more say than at 7.

GodivaEater · 23/07/2018 17:19

@shegotbettedaviseyes right- so in the summer, yes? Not at school? Different kettle of fish entirely.

couchparsnip · 23/07/2018 17:21

People seem to think schools and attitudes are the same as when they were young. They aren't in my experience. My DS has a male friend at secondary who wears female uniform. If anyone teased or bullied them for it they would be under a disciplinary immediately. Its just not done! Its as unacceptable as racism to them. DS (13) corrects me if I mispeak on issues like this, which I sometimes do because I was brought up in the 70s and 80s.

larrygrylls · 23/07/2018 17:21

Once the bullying has started changing looks etc will have no effect.

Being able to ‘fit in’, however, is a life skill.

From a male perspective (as I can only speak from personal experience) dressing like one’s peers, being able to effect a similar accent to them and having a passing knowledge of football (even if you are not interested) will avoid you getting noticed and picked on.

As a parent I want my children to have an easy life, not to challenge societal norms. They can choose to do that when they are older and understand the implications.

As to the dress wearer at their school, I have explained to my sons that clothes are just clothes and people should dress however they like without being picked on. However I have also said that dressing like that does make you stock out and stupid people will pick on you.

Failingat40 · 23/07/2018 17:22

Have you given him a 'boys' name?
Yes (strange question!)

Not a strange question at all.
You are spouting about gender fluidity yet contradict your own beliefs by giving him a stereotypical boys name.

Please prepare yourself for the anger from him in the future towards you. You've got it so wrong.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:22

'See I have no issue with that - I do that anyway but part of that for us was letting our DC conform when they felt they wanted/needed to ( not enforcing it following their lead/need to fit in)'

I also do the same.

That's awful @Pickleypickles. But I'm confused about what you're saying - you weren't in any way different and you got bullied so how does not allowing your children to 'stick out like a sore thumb' make any difference?

OP posts:
SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 23/07/2018 17:22

right- so in the summer, yes? Not at school? Different kettle of fish entirely

Oh right. Thanks for letting me know.

I won't bother responding, since you seem to know better.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:23

'You are spouting about gender fluidity yet contradict your own beliefs by giving him a stereotypical boys name.'

Spouting about gender fluidity? Where? You seem to have totally made that up in your head!

OP posts:
Seasawride · 23/07/2018 17:24

Where are all these boys in dresses? Where do you live op?

you know 3 boys who wear their sisters dresses

Again really where are you?

In all my 28 years as a parent I have never ever seem a school aged boy in a dress. And yes around here he would be noticed teased and trust me no one would see this as mainstream or ignore it.

He’s 7 op. You are throwing him under the bus because if no one is saying anything to his face now and I seriously dought that they will come puberty.

Don’t let this happen op. It really isn’t fair.

Seasawride · 23/07/2018 17:25

That they won’t obviousiy.

Not going into the rights and wrongs of it just the facts in the world I live in and I guess 99% of posters do too.

User183737 · 23/07/2018 17:26

Couch thats because of trans rights and bullying him would be classed as transphobia

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 23/07/2018 17:27

you know 3 boys who wear their sisters dresses

Yes, really. One lives nearby - not a friend, but we see him around a fair bit; one is the son of a friend and one goes to the DC dance class.

I'm not claiming it's mainstream - 3 is hardly a huge amount compared to the amount of kids we know/see!

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:28

'He’s 7 op. You are throwing him under the bus because if no one is saying anything to his face now and I seriously dought that they will come puberty.'

Interesting. So I should stop him doing things now, not because of anyone who's saying anything at the moment but because of people who might say things when he's older? Wow that's a lot of power to give people who don't even know him yet! It genuinely surprises me that people live like this, but it really explains a lot.

OP posts:
Pickleypickles · 23/07/2018 17:40

My point was A) I understand what bullying can do to a person and that B) I understand bullying doesn't have to have a "reason" but that doesnt mean that I'm going to encourage pushing social boundaries at a very young age.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 17:42

'My point was A) I understand what bullying can do to a person and that B) I understand bullying doesn't have to have a "reason" but that doesnt mean that I'm going to encourage pushing social boundaries at a very young age.'

Ok. I don't really get it but I respect that that's your choice. Sorry you had such a hard time, it sounds really horrible.

OP posts:
Seasawride · 23/07/2018 17:46

Yes op you should stop him. He’s going to be ajressy the boy in the dress. That might be ok at 7 but it won’t be ok for him at 13..

7 year olds rely on their parents to guide and support them not let them do things thos parents know full well will cause huge harm to them down the line.

it genuinely surprises me that people live like this

Does it though?? Really?? I am sure your ds is a lovely free spirit and equally sure you love it too and support and love him and the attention you both undoubtedly get now but this will change.

He won’t thank you op he really won’t unkess guy home school him etc.

ShirazShirley · 23/07/2018 17:49

I’m torn in this one.

On the one hand you are absolutely right that bullies shouldn’t have the power, and everyone should be able to be themselves without fear of reprisal.

On the other hand, that just isn’t how the world works, however we may wish it so.

The same as I will counsel my daughter not to walk home alone at night, or to dress too ‘skimpy’ before she is of an age to deal with the additional attention and aggression that can bring.

She should be able to do those things without any fear, and any girl doing those things is not to blame for what may happen. But sadly it is more likely to happen to a young girl walking home alone than a girl picked up by parents or in a group.

But again, that is how the world works, I consider it my job as an mother to advise her on how to navigate it safely and with as little difficulty as possible.

Your son will be a target for bullying. As long as he is old enough to understand the risks of that and the long term consequences it can bring down on him then I would think you’ve done what you can.