Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

Some parents feel more strongly about making their political or social views known via their children than they do about letting their child truly express their authentic selves. Ironically the worst offenders I've seen for this are parents who are 'alternative' in some way - with the rainbow mini-me to match.

How about the hipster father goes to work in a pinafore dress instead of experimenting on a small child.

Your friends are idiots.

How quickly society forgets that women were once upon a time considered deviant for wearing trousers.

Pinafores are just clothes. So are cardigans, and white socks, and things with flower motifs etc.

The restricted choices of boys clothing are bemoaned on mn frequently enough so it's a surprise to see such a big majority of posters agreeing that he shouldn't wear a skirt and backing it up with all the ways the kids and adults will scorn him for it.

It's so fucking depressing that at age 4 gender norms storm into a kids world and are reinforced by so many adults.

There is a direct connection between supporting this gender norm of boys can't wear skirts and all the other more toxic gender norms of boys shouldn't cry etc.

When you reinforce the concept that the rules of engagement are different for boys and girls and are non negotiable, you're complicit in restricting choice, aspiration and expectation for boys and girls, men and women.

People calling it borderline child abuse or cruelty need to have a look at what actual child abuse is and stop devaluing that term by using it on something like this.

Idiots. Sorry have absolutely no time for this gender neutral or gender fluid bollocks. Boys do not go to school wearing a Fucking skirt. My ds is bullied for wearing hearing aids and having asd. I wouldn't put crap like this on him

They're not 'brilliant brave parents'. They're abusive parents using their child as an experiment.

I'm inclined to agree with @HildaZelda. Is the male parent happy to go out in dresses, tights etc?

I would question why they have chosen or allowed the most clearly gendered type of uniform available.

Just when you think you have read it all.......

Poor little sod.

They're not 'brilliant brave parents'. They're abusive parents using their child as an experiment.

This ^^

Are they truly convinced of their righteousness, or could you plant a little seed of doubt in their mind by enthusing about how "courageous" they are being? (Think Jim Hacker in "Yes Minister", Yes, that is a very brave decision, minister."

Boys can't wear red coat, yellow socks or cardigans? What? That's depressing. Then again, a stranger commented on my ds @3 weeks old 'Oh I assumed he was a girl because of the green cardigan' Grrr.

REOlay

Did you read the update where we learned that

The child has only recently moved to the area so does not know other children, therefore will not have supportive little friends who know him and love him for himself.

The school has an almost exclusively BME population, so parents are likely to be slightly more conservative than say, your average Islington primary.

The child is mildly autistic.

The parents are same sex.

These are enough hurdles for a 4 year old starting school to surmount without adding on extra ones. Cut the poor little sod some slack, it is not his job to plough the furrow for gender equality.

Most parents priorities for kids starting school are about their child fitting in to social groups, making friends, developing social skills and relationships outside the family etc not many parents choose to send their kids into battle as fodder for their own issues.

I am somewhat divided on this one.
On one hand, I think that if the boy has been given a choice and has chosen a pinafore dress to wear then isn't it sad that at such a young age society will ridicule him?

There is a boy at my school who wears the 'girls' cardigan instead of the 'boy jumper'. He also has pink sparkly trainers and Disney princess bag and lunch box - because he loves Disney princesses and his favourite colour is pink.
I haven't heard any child bully or ridicule him and if they did they would be given a serious chat about inclusion and everybody can be who they want to be etc.

However, in this case, if the little lad is already going to stand out as being one of a small handful of white kids, he's new to the area and has no friends that 'get him' already and if he's on the autism spectrum then I personally think it's a bit cruel shortsighted of his parent/parents inflicting more prejudice and stigma onto him.

I feel for the little lad.

Viques I'm not going to pass judgement on the choice the parents have made. They know their kid, and the school and the area etc, I don't.

A lot of the judgement on this thread is based on speculation and assumption and that doesn't sit well for me.

Bandying child abuse around for allowing a boy to wear a skirt is inexcusable and ridiculous.

Much comments are more about the overwhelming condemnation of boy wearing "girl" clothing, and that became clear way before the updates came out.

YANBU

His “brilliant and brave” parents are idiots

YANBU

His “brilliant and brave” parents are idiots.

I'm with Beans.

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

REO I personally don't care what a child wears and I'm sure many other posters don't BUT from my own experience, at the very least, other children will think he's a girl and it will raise questions even if it doesn't come to bullying. I can guarantee this. Yes, that's because of 'society' but it's the truth. It's also the truth that, as much as we might not like it, at primary school boys and girls develop an idea very quickly based on what everyone else is doing about what is 'for girls' and 'for boys'. That might not be right or fair but it's the reality that I have seen with my own eyes.

For me it’s the lack of choice which matters here. This couple have only bought dresses for their son, if that’s all he wanted then fine, but not giving him the option of shorts or trousers is wrong. It’s forcing the child to make a point.

The op described the couple as queer without one of them being a father figure. So they might be a same sex couple, but they might not.

This is like some experiment from the non pc 60s or 70s we laugh at now

Pinafores and tights are not even practical for a four year old. Shorts/trousers or skirts and socks make much more sense.

As for the gender element, other children will notice and will be mean. Even if their parents are very inclusive and tolerant, it only takes one child to start and the others join in and it's surprising how much gender roles in society have an effect - I've had to pull my kids up on 'pink is for girls' etc and I thought I'd been making a conscious effort to shield them from all that. They pick it up elsewhere. The parents are isolating him before even giving him a chance to get in there and make friends. And you say there are already things that'll make him standout. Once people got to know him they may not even bat an eyelid if he rocks up in a dress one day. Have you discussed this with them at all?

People calling it borderline child abuse or cruelty need to have a look at what actual child abuse is and stop devaluing that term by using it on something like this.

Nonsense, there's different kinds of abuse, i'd say being the cause of your child getting bullied and/or ridiculed (which he certainly will) is definitely abusive. Just because they aren't physically harming him doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

Many posters are told their husbands are abusive without them actually being physically hurt, your logic wouldn't apply there, so why should it for a child.

People calling it borderline child abuse or cruelty need to have a look at what actual child abuse is and stop devaluing that term by using it on something like this.

Nonsense, there's different kinds of abuse, i'd say being the cause of your child getting bullied and/or ridiculed (which he certainly will) is definitely abusive. Just because they aren't physically harming him doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

Many posters are told their husbands are abusive without them actually being physically hurt, your logic wouldn't apply there, so why should it for a child.

I'm confused about the comment PP said about a boy wearing yellow ankle socks? Not sure if i'm missing the point here but what is the problem with that?