Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

I think it's reactions like this that have led to the upswing in trans-identifying children. Let the poor boy wear a pinafore if he wants to, it's not harming anyone!
I'm always amazed by the number of people who assume the parents are enforcing this... I can't get my children to wear socks they don't like, let alone an entirely differently gender-coded outfit.
If people being mean to him about what he wears is the issue, maybe we should focus on teaching them not to be mean, rather than policing a child's fashion choices so vehemently.

That was me about the yellow ankle socks. There wasn't a problem at all as far as i or the mother was concerned. The kids at school thought different. Same as these days if a kid goes in wearing cheap trainers? shouldn't be a problem should it, but there most definitely is. Surely you know kids will tease about anything that doesn't fit their "norm"?

My DS 3yo saw a gorgeous layered red skirt while choosing trousers and fell in love. He insisted on trying on and was trilled hen he put it on (he could make it fan out by swishing himself around which was a lot of fun). He was very keen to buy it but I suggested he wear it at home or among friends because some people are not used to seeing boys wear skirts. Next morning he insisted on wearing it to pre-school.

His teacher didn’t bat an eyelid, took one look and said she would talk about Scottish kilts in class (we live in France). DD 6yo was asked by some classmates why her brother was wearing a skirt and she said “All clothes are for all children” as I had primed her, and many parents said he looked cute.

The only one worried about it all was me - lesson learned.

If an adult wants to challenge gender stereotypes and norms, that's their business. They understand that they are breaking societal norms and are deliberately making a choice.

Sounds like this child has no idea that there are societal norms and expectations for clothing and that he will be breaking them. He's being put into a situation where he's breaking the norms but will be unaware of it. The chances are that he'll be bullied, mocked and/or ostracised.

Although adults may feel like they want to challenge gender stereotypes, it's completely unacceptable to use an uninformed child to do so.

@Tigersteeth the point is that it isn't the little boys "choice" to wear a pinafore. Nobody has explained cultural norms to him or that little boys don't usually wear a dress to school. The parents haven't given him the choice between trousers or a dress and even if they did he wouldn't understand the implications! For him it's as simple as choosing between a knife or a spoon for his spaghetti....

Now if we were talking a year into school and he actively asked to wear a dress despite seeing how the other boys are dressed then that's a whole different story and perhaps one your comment is more suitable for.

We have a family like this at our school . If there child wants anything out of the normal it is actively encouraged , None of the 3 children never seem especially happy and seem to struggle to fit in .

I also agree with pp if they want to push gender boundaries let dad go to work in a skirt . That never happens in these families

It's too ridiculous to be true. I bet they are teasing you OP. Some people are too gullible. I bet they are enjoying the fact that they know you will be agonizing over this.

I bet that they would be even more delighted that there is now a thread full of 'frothing' Mumsnetters 😉

Presumably if this results in a Daily Mail article then they would be even happier!

OP don't fall for this type of crap.

Booboo your post highlights perfectly the difference between nursery aged children and school aged children. At nursery there was no problem but the 6 year old school friends thought it was a problem. Attitudes are different once children hit primary school age. DS would make very 'girly' choices at 3 or 4 but by 5 or 6 he was actively shunning anything remotely girly having been influenced by other boys at school.

That boy will have his first experience of these kind of comments and it's totally avoidable.

Pair of woke arseholes using their child to virtue signal
I pity the poor kid

I totally agree tigers.
The only way we are going to change perception of gender, and smash enforced gender roles, is by acting, not just saying. It was the boys choice. The parents are allowing him to express himseof however he'd like, and good on them. The message is 'yes, people might not understand you, but we love you, and we'll support you.'

Isn't that better than saying 'hide yourself away and conform, even if it makes you miserable?' How long does he have to conform? Secondary school kids are even meaner.

As a lesbian who suppressed my sexuality until recently because of shame and guilt, this 'conform' reaction upsets me. Yes, I was bullied when my peers caught glimpses of my true self. However, I so deeply regret trying to hide it, denying it, instead of saying 'yeah I am, so what?'
How wonderful if my parents had instilled that courage.

Awful. As a PP said, if it is the boy’s choice once he has experience of the ‘norms’ of school, then fair enough. Sending him in blind to this at age 4 is cruel.

Btw OP, there is no such thing as ‘mild’ autism; do you mean high functioning?

Not blaming my parents BTW, more the Catholic institutions and culture they were bought up in x

OP, there is nothing you have said about the parents to suggest they are forcing their son to wear a pinafore or that they would force him to continue wearing one if he changes his mind. You seem to think they are loving, caring parents so I'm not sure what the fuss is about - presumably they want their son to be happy and will want to avoid distressing him.

Depressing amount of posters who support the re-inforcing of gender stereotypes out of fear of other people's reactions, rather than entertaining the idea of supporting individuality.

I’m concerned by the PPs who have said girls have been teased at primary school for wearing trousers and another who said very few girls in her DDs school wear trousers. My DD is 22, and there were no skirts at all in her primary classes. They were not an option that was chosen by anyone (for complete clarity, the school was a very small one of 35 pupils in a rural area, which might have made some difference).
I think this shows how far gender neutrality has regressed in those years. When DD was in nursery and primary school nobody cared what children wore or played with. Now we seems to be going backwards to a place where gender stereotyping is the norm. It’s related to the rise of interest (? Is that the right word?) in trans issues. I was a child in the second half of the 60s and the 70s when you would have thought there would be more sexism and even then I was ok to wear trousers and ride bikes and climb trees etc.
I think this is at least as worrying an aspect of trans ideology as the women’s spaces issue. We are heading for the situation where people are forced into gender stereotypes with the only alternative for people who want to move away from them (even in such little things as wearing trousers/liking pink) being transitioning. It terrifies me.

cardibach Some (but not all) aspects of gender stereotyping have worsened/become more pronounced over the last few decades. I agree that generally there are greater differences now in the way that males/females present themselves. But I think it's absolute bollocks to blame 'trans ideology' rather than consider the impact of society itself/the media/advertising in this.

Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people

Sound like a pair of spanners to me. He'll be bullied terribly. They've done that to him. Kids are cruel and they've ensured it will be their kid that is on the receiving end of what the nastier ones dish out.

Doyoumind possibly, but all that shows is that these differences are culturally imposed at a very young age. Unfortunately it is not about one child and one skirt but attitudes that permeat everything boys and girls do. DD at 6yo managed just fine explaining to her friends why Ds was wearing a skirt. No one asked follow on questions and no one teased either child about it.

That is complete rubbish cardibach. Gender stereotyping in clothes, toys and all consumer products is marketing driven. Advertising execs set out to create a massive market for gendered products to drive sales up and they succeeded.

and she said “All clothes are for all children” as I had primed her, and many parents said he looked cute.
What nonsense, i've got two grandsons, can just imagine the 12 year olds friends faces if he went out wearing a dress. The worlds gone mad.

@FemaleHumanAdult (not sure if I have tagged properly).

Your argument is a very eloquent way of expressing my view on this and one that I shall probably often quote. Thank you

Oh, op's described her friends as "queer", they're clearly going to be the kind of social justice warriors that would subject their children to this to make a point.

Stirner

The poor lad is going to get absolutely tormented at school at it'll all be his parents' fault.

nope he will be down as trans anyone much as looks at him they will be excluded
I don’t think their brave I think their attention seeking

A couple of Halloweens ago, DS then 5 decided he wanted to wear the same witch costume as DD. We went to a party, DD's friend said, "Why's DS wearing a dress?" DD, completely unprompted, said, "Because he wants to." I was so proud. 😀

They are setting that poor boy up to be mocked and teased. I think I would be saying something even at risk of losing the friendship.

I'm all for breaking down gender stereotypes, but people like that seem to enjoy using their child as a symbol of how cool and liberal they are.

If they were genuinely interested in leaving it up to him then they'd have bought a range of uniform which he can pick abd mix from, not decide that because one day he said pinafore that's it. Or, they'd offer a range of activities and styles and had discussions about how boys and girls can be succesful in lots of ways. These lot probably say they won't use pronouns because their child is non binary

Hell, I'm sure i wanted to be a mud covered ninja princess with my very own real scaelexric car. Thankfully nobody took me too seriously and I had the option of trousers or skirts.