Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

Hi I was mopping the floor, was where I was.

My friends are not twats or idiots or cruel or any of the other things that have been said. I think they're misguided on this point but they're also kind, loving parents, supportive friends, and a great couple. To be honest? I think their kid is going to be very vulnerable at school anyway. He is going to be different: he'll be about one of 5 white kids in the school, he’s only just moved to the area so doesn't know any other kids, his family is different to other families and he's mildly autistic. I don't think he's going to get through school without being seen as different and possibly bullied for it. I just hope this doesn't make that a foregone conclusion.

There is no dad to wear a pinny to work. They're a queer couple.

Just why? Why make him an oddball

Olivers DD used to absolutely love pinafores, then their school was academised and they had to wear ties, she switched to skirts so she could show it off, now I can't get her out of trousers or shorts. At home she lives in joggers, even in this heat.

I use queer as including, but not being limited to, gay. I don't think the precise sexual make up of the family is relevant tbh.

A few years ago I would have said I wouldn't do it to my own kid but also didn't think it was a huge deal, it's good when stereotypes are challenged, etc.

I would have thought what was likely to happen would be that the kids assume he's a girl, he might be upset by that, the parents and teachers would explain to him and classmates that no, he's a boy but boys can wear skirts too, and the boy would decide pretty quickly if he wants to take on the role of 'the boy who shows that boys can wear skirts', or if he wants to beg mum and dad to get him some school trousers like the other boys. Probably no lasting harm done.

In the current climate, I'd be concerned that what could happen is that the other kids assume he's a girl, the teachers assume he's trans and call him 'she' to demonstrate their 'wokeness'/avoid being branded bigots, he gets massive positive reinforcement for being a stunning and brave transgirl, children who call him 'he' are corrected, and he starts to think that yes, he must really be a girl because 'being a girl' means wearing skirts instead of trousers, and everyone says he is one, and a fabulous one at that. And eventually he refers to himself as a girl out loud. And then his 'trans identity' can never ever be questioned, because that would be tantamount to conversion therapy. Then a girl's name, and eventually puberty blockers, then cross sex hormones, and infertility.

Trans ideology is the enemy of gender nonconformity, and this is a good example of why.

Why do people think the child/parents are in the wrong and not the bullies.

Live and let live ffs.

Ah so because they don't fit in, they want their little boy to be different too. Sorry but I think this is vile. Poor poor boy.

Sorry for the 'mum and dad' assumption. Should have said 'parents'.

BlimeySaracen, the kid is 4 and just about to start reception with all the new things that brings with it, being in a large group, new adults, new environment, new routines etc etc Don't you think he will have enough to deal with without being expected to shoulder the responsibility of being the gender identity poster kid for the school, showing the others resilience , defying gender stereotypes, standing up to stares and remarks , shaming the staff and other students into accepting and embracing new gender norms!

Parents are supposed to support their children's development constructively , not throw them off the top board of the diving pool and expect them to swim.

My mum worked in a school for many years and said the kids with clothes issues (be in only wearing a certain colour, boys in dresses, won’t wear xyz part of uniform, etc) always had a hard time. Mainly because other kids just don’t take to them. The other kids aren’t mean or bullying but they struggle to fit in.

I don't deny that some children do suffer terribly because of bullying, but why automatically assume that that is going to happen, and seek to limit a child's choices
Because anyone who has a child old enough to go to school knows that four year olds are little savages don't behave how we would like them too. At best he will be teased.
I also remember DS begging for boxer shorts within weeks of starting school.
Though he did wear cardigans at secondary school because all the boys did.

Slightly ironic that they want to promote gender neutralism (if that is a word!) Yet, buy stereotypically female clothing for the child, not a mixture of both.
Let the child be a child and not some political statement!

I feel a bit conflicted about this. Part of me thinks "bravo to them for doing what they strongly believe in". The other part thinks "I don't think it's fair to use their child to make a point and I'm glad it's not my child being sent into the lion's den like this".

I'm a hypocrite I guess.

I know I am going back 10+ years but pinafores were a definite No even for girls. I don't know anyone who wore them unless it was part of a private school uniform

Pinafores were the norm when my dd started Reception 11 years ago. She had one of those lycra stretchy ones which are more like putting on a stretchy sweatshirt on and it meant that she didn't have a sagging trouser line like many primary school boys do. (Adjustable waists can only hide so much)

The parents are absolute idiots and not brave at all. Their child will have this reputation for 7 years minimum (more if he goes to a local secondary school) Adults will assume that he's trans and kids will be telling him not to go into the boys toilet.

The uniform policy will almost certainly say trousers or shorts for boys and trousers, skirts, pinafores for girls. Is he going to wear girls school shoes (Mary Janes) , long hair and have a unisex name like Alex? Feel sorry for this kid.

If you read Cinderella Ate My Daughter - a non fiction book about gender stereotypes - the author discovers much to her chagrin (from researches with a lot of experience) that it's around 3 yo kids start to become aware of their sex, which is why they start segregating themselves by sex and many retreat into hyper gender stereotypes eg girls wanting to dress up and play princesses all the time.

So he may not have an awareness of sex and gender yet but he will very soon.

Think we are talking about 2 different things. I thought pinafores were dresses with bibs attached.

I thought trousers with bibs attached were dungarees

He has a boy’s name and is very clear that he's a boy. His hair is short.

Sorry but you are wrong OP. Your friends are twats for doing this to their child.

But @RelentlessSylvia he will still be the only boy in a dress. He is being set up by his parents

of course, a queer couple, queer as in odd

are they both male? the parents?

a lesbian couple?

I haven't RTFT but I'm shocked at posters saying "prepared to bullied"- yes it's odd behaviour but they doesn't condone bullying. If I found out my DD had bullied someone for wearing something outside of the norm she'd be in big trouble. Kids will come across a lot of 'weird' people in their lives- they should learn politeness about it at an early age!

That said, the parents sound as though THEY are making a point.

Pinafores are just sleeveless dresses worn over a school top and are very much the norm in dd primary school and were even when I was at school many moons ago.

Sounds like life is going to be pretty tough for this little boy, no idea why his parents would purposefully make it harder for him

Your friends are twats. You can say they're not until the cows come home but they are twats - massive right on borderline abusive twats.

Their sexual orientation has piss all to do with anything. Anyone can be a twat and these two making a point at the expense of a 4 year old child with additional needs take twattery to a whole new level.

Kids will be mean and school probably won't allow it as the will have a boys uniform list and a girls uniform list and I bet a pinafore dress won't be on the boys list