Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

If you were the Reception teacher wouldn’t you already have a pair of trousers ready for him to change into by playtime?

Wonky yes they did come back. Mid-thread.

I feel so sorry for this little boy. Definitely this is for the parents benefit not his. Even from a practical point of view - shorts, trousers more practical and less gendered than a dress!

I'd let thm get on with it. I dont see why he shouldnt wear a dress if he wants

I think the point is he doesn't have a choice. His parents want him to wear a dress he hasn't been given a choice.

Up thread someone said that clothes don't have a gender.

I would disagree. Even the white shirt that boys and girls wear to school will be different. Even just down to which way the shirt buttons up

Nothing to do with style or looking feminine or masculine

Plimy everyone treats their kid like a sandwich board promoter of their views, the right to do so is enschrined in human rights legislation. Religious parents will take their kid to church, teach her not to eat certain foods and say grace. Many parents will teach their kids to share, say please/thank you and not hit back (all day entirely culturally conditioned responses as in many cultures kids are taught to push in at queues, say Bonjour and kiss instead of focus on please/thank you, etc). Parents involve their kids in environmental initiative, pride parades or anti-fascism demonstrations. It would be perverse to try to bring up children without passing on our values. One would lik to hope that the values we try to pass on include a respect for the truth, a love of the good and an ambition to become virtuous, but it would be odd to hope for a value-empty parenting project (not even sure it would be practically possible).

I sent my DS to school the first year in cardigans. He suited the cardigan better and he was my first child to go to school so I didn’t realise this would be an issue. They were the proper school cardigan so didn’t have frills and spills on and weren’t ‘girly’ at all. He was heavily ridiculed and came home crying, he went in jumpers from there on out.

They should be prepared for their DS experiencing similar.

Booboostwo

That's trying to pretend that the way we bring up children is inevitably all one issue, every choice to be judged as no more or less significant than another. Which is wrong.

People can legitimately oppose or disagree about some aspects of others’ choices for their children. Religion, uniformed activities like scouts, food fads, etc. Yes or no to these for a child is no more than a matter of opinion. (I accept the manner of the choice might matter: strange fundamentalist cults are different to the local CofE for example.)

But where a choice is potentially harmful it’s altogether different. The harm to this boy might be ‘only’ isolation and mockery but it is harm even so.

Does a committed naturist have a right to insist on their 4-year-old going to school naked?

Children are naturally tribal. They’re also blunt and often cruel. Children who stand out are quickly taken down which can easily turn into bullying.

Plimmy I was addressing specifically the point that these parents are treating their child like a sandwich board promoter of their values by suggesting we all do that.

As for this practice being particularly harmful, I think the harm is minor and the benefits substantial as it teaches the child to question gender stereotypes. Equally parents who dress their children in gender stereotypical ways harm them by reinforcing these stereotypes. So boys are expected to be strong and independent, a practice that harms their emotional development. They are taught to see girls as cute, pretty, feminine, fragile, etc. which harms their future relationships with women. Do you really think that the harm done by breaking gender stereotypes is greater than the harm done by the gender stereotypes themselves?

The significant swathe of posters condemning the parents for making the wrong choice for their child; promoting their own interests at the expense of their child; exposing their child to bullying at school etc is reminiscent of criticism of mothers who breastfeed their children for longer than the accepted norms. Similar arguments which don't stack up.

DS wears school logo cardigans because the sweatshirts struggle to go over his head and he doesn't like the feel of generic knits. He's had some comments that they are for girls, but it is usually accepted that it's part of who he is. He is happy about the cardigans because it is more practical and comfortable to him. When the original sweatshirts weren't working, I asked the teacher about the cardigans. Imposing a more "feminine" item from the start as a political statement will have a different effect on the child in the face of comment from their peers. A cardigan can be taken off. A pinafore is a prominant item of clothing, even more so than a skirt and the child is stuck in it all day.

He's confident about looking a bit different because it is a combination of comfortable and practical choices for him. Imposing the same style onto another child could cause them much misery.

Females have been successful at reclaiming "masculine" items such as trousers and shorts because they are more practical (warmer, better range of movement). Males haven't reclaimed "feminine" items like skirts or pinafores on any significant scale because there is little practical gain and not worth the risk of embarassment.

Why any parent would send their child into a situation to be bullied and ridiculed is beyond me. They are incredibly selfish to use their child as some sort of statement for their own beliefs, especially when it's at the expense of the child. That poor kid hasn't a hope. He will hate them when he realises.

It’s nothing like breastfeeding. In that case any issues (tbh I never came across any) are directed at the mother.

In this case the child will be on the receiving end of comments/teasing/taunts. Yes, support kids in choices they make but don’t impose them.

My 16 year old son who has been at a boys school for the last 5 years does a lot of dance including ballet. He tells no-one because (according to him) ‘I’d be roasted’. Now I’d never tell him not to tell anyone, nor would I tell him he had to. He’s obviously not bowing down to gender stereotypes but it’s up to him if he wants to reduce the flack he’ll get.

Attention seeking weirdos whose poor kid will be on some hormone combo in 10 years. Wish people would see this for the abuse it is

Boob so you'd just joined the thread, and I presume then you hadn't read it all otherwise you'd have seen that practically everyone was of the same mind as me. Therefore surely you'd address the thread as a whole? as in just give your opinion, don't single one person out. I find it's a nicer less confrontational way?

He’d be out of step at my kids school because there is a massive trend for girls opting for trousers, shorts and play suits. My five year old daughter hated her pinafore due to its impracticability and she is very much a “girly girl”.

I think this is parents forcing their child to be a flag barer of their political ideology and it’s not on. They know that the child will most likely prefer to conform which is why they haven’t given him the option of a boys uniform. There is no opt out for him if changing the world’s (or that school’s at least) relationship to gender is too much of a responsibility for him. Four year olds should not be on the vanguard of societal change.

Nope, it’s all about the parents wishes - selfish.

coolncalm addressing someone’s arguments, posing objections and expecting answers is not confrontational, it’s literally the definition of debate. You are still deflecting and not engaging with the arguments by the way.

Who will be tormenting him? Some of the kids of PP by the sounds of it. 🙄

I was till you came along, kindly leave it alone now, I don't wish to engage with you.

Boob you're being personal and unnecessary. Back off. Shes been polite enough to ask.
No matter what values a parent holds sending a 4yr old to nursery deliberately is cruel and automatically makes them 'that kid' to teachers, parents and other children, attention they might not want without them even being old enough to give an opinion. It will impact on their ftiendships, confidence and being invited for tea etc. If this is a middle class hippy statement unfortunately it will be accepted as eccentric. Whereas poor kaimarni from the local estate would probably have social service intervention and referral to a parenting course. The parents are wankers.

What always makes me incredulous are the posters who come on and swear blind that there are plenty of boys in their schools that wear dresses and no one bats an eyelid.

I wonder where these posters live? What schools they attend?

I honestly have never ever seen any boy actually in a dress at school or in a dress past say 3? And I have 6 kids and worked as a TA for a few years.

Yes there are lads at my dds high school who wear makeup and are generally accepted but dresses? Never.

Its a joke. You must have unmet needs to need to do this to your child. Its unnecessary
Of course its rare in real life but those desperate for attention get some by posting about it (not the op)

Don’t keep posting, remember your own advice, don’t stand out, don’t be different,.

boobootoo

Do you practise your theories on your own children or do you actually not have children? Or children at school.? Or actually know any children

Robo

My dd would have picked out her mermaid costume for the first day at school but as an adult I said no.

Ffs! What a bloody shame some people put their own need to stand out and gain attention too. Above their own child’s mental health, well being and happiness.

Emotionally abusive twats