Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

You just know that these parents are.......

Guardian readers?

Islington types?

Remoaners?

This is utterly ridiculous!
I have my head in my hands!
I’m all for rights and acceptance but this little boy is starting school in a fucking dress ffs!
The world has gone fucking mad.
He’s 4!
What the hell is wrong with shorts/trousers until he decides how he wants to dress.
It’s a uniform.

He probably picked them out. Clothes don't have genders. It doesn't matter. 4 year olds won't care.

Why do people think the child/parents are in the wrong and not the bullies.

While you aren't wrong with this sentiment, the kids wouldn't really be bullies. They are 4 and 5 year olds getting their heads around a sudden challenge to the reality they thought they had figured out while also trying to find their own place in a new environment. They aren't setting out to be nasty but the odds are this little boy will bear the brunt of their confusion and likely 'ganging up' to mock the source of that confusion.

My DS is 5.5. He has never thought that certain things weren't for him because of his gender. And I'm happy to buy him the Barbie doll and Elsa costume he wants to go with his Batman figures and superhero costumes. I'm happy for him to play with them and enjoy them. But I won't photograph him doing so and put it on social media, nor do I leave those toys 'on display' in our house in the same was as other toys. I want him to enjoy everything he enjoys but I don't want him to be subject to comments that make him question himself for what he enjoys. Nor do I want him to be left open to ridicule. And the reality of our society means walking a fine line between encouraging him to be true to himself while not letting him be a pioneer for a cause that he doesn't know exists.

Why would they do that. They sound like attention seekers make. Oh yeah I'm so gender equality blah blah blah all at the expense of their child. My dd asked to wear a bra the other day doesn't mean I say yes. Fools

Robojesus, he may well have picked them out, but surely this is one instance where adults who know what schools are like should have guided him. I agree that 4 year olds are unlikely to care, but he won't be in a school that only has 4 year olds in it.

Poor boy.

Peer pressure is strong at school, my dd used to wear boy shorts (undies), and then her 2 "best" friends went on and on until she converted to briefs. Would never have thought underwear would've been an issue, they only see it when changing for PE?!! I'm sure that boy will be the focus of attention for his class, I hope he can deal with it.

Why do people think the child/parents are in the wrong and not the bullies.
Well we could say that about any situation couldn't we. We know the bullies are in the wrong but that doesn't mean we aren't obliged as parents to do all in our power to protect our kids from the bullies.

Imagine a child coming home from school upset because for whatever reason some kids had been bullying him, . Would it be right to say, "well that's not my fault it's the bullies"?

coolncalm if you feel picked on then take your own advice, conform, hide, etc. Ironic how that advise sucks isn’t it?
Also, engaging with someone in discussion is not picking on them. Deflecting from the (lack) of argument by suggesting you feel picked on is a crappy reasoning fallacy.
My arguments apply to everyone who has a similar view, you just happen to be expressing it at the time I joined the thread.

I don't think this is about bullying, per se.

Many children are not emotionally aware enough to keep their thoughts to themselves, and to default to kindness.

The old saying, 'if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all' is difficult (impossible) for many adults to get their heads around, let alone children.

A boy going into school in a pinafore isn't necessarily going to be bullied. But he may well be a figure of fun from his peers. Some may say this is just semantics, but I disagree. And then every day that he goes in in a pinafore, he's subject to more teasing or being laughed at, by kids who just think it's 'funny' or 'different' or whatever. This essentially amounts to bullying, as by this point, it's sustained.

I'm deeply wary of victim-blaming, and I want my child to be whoever they want to be. I also don't want them to have to deal with with the inevitable immature reactions of children who don't have the emotional wherewithal to respond kindly, or even neutrally.

Besides - pinafores? Pinafores are a ridiculous concept for small girls who wish to play and be unrestricted. The reason Edwardian women began to eschew dresses in favour of trousers is because trousers make so much more sense.

I live at a time when Piers Morgan is the embodiment of the orthos logos.

If he wants to wear a dress and other children laugh at him, then the teachers will explain to the children that he can wear what he likes and that it’s not ok to laugh at someone because of their clothes.
Lots of boys in FS wear princess dresses at every opportunity!

Shocked at the vast majority of responses on this thread. Maybe I am lucky to live where I live but at my son's school a few boys regularly wear dresses and aren't tormented at all. Most boys prefer cardigans to jumpers and no one even bats an eyelid. It's just a non issue.

But the child isn’t choosing in this case, his oh so cool parents had decided he will wear a dress.

And it’s not about his peers - FS kids probably won’t care. The older ones will notice and comment though.

No wonder there is an increase in mental health problems in children! School might have something to say about it. Just plain attention seeking silliness on part of parents. Likely to be quite damaging for child so they might find they are referred to safeguarding team.

Maybe parents bought dresses because he chose them. Maybe he has shorts etc that cover the uniform already.
But kids commenting should be told not to.

They sound like idiots using their child to make some weird gender crusade.

Trousers are not gendered clothing and besides anything else are far more practical for school.

The fact you say he will stand out anyway does not make it better - it makes it worse. If they were good parents they would doing what they could to help him fit in and make friends. Not making him stand out even more and setting him up for potential ridicule.

OP said earlier she didn’t think they had chosen them as they hadn’t bought him a choice of clothes.

Id let them get on with it. I dont see why he shouldnt wear a dress if he wants before its ingrained in him that feminine is a terrible sin. Loads of boys like stereotypically feminine things before it is metaphorically beaten out of them, and in many schools i think this would be accepted at that age. If the kids start mocking him, i think cross that bridge later.

I say this as someone who is very against transing kids btw.

'They sound like idiots using their child to make some weird gender crusade.'

Quite

This is child abuse imo. They are setting up their kid to be ridiculed at best or bullied at worse. Tell them to stop living their unorthodox lives vicariously through their poor child. Why the fuck would you do this to a child they’re knobs

If they’re doing this for effect, they’re going to be mightily disappointed when the school goes “ok then”. There is often nothing they’ve not seen, and I bet they’re already anticipating aggro from these two. Theyre highly unlikely to pander to trendy ideal when a child’s well-being is the only issue.

The cool and trendy parents at our school are often so frustrated by the fact that, at least outwardly, no one reacts to their latest fad. It’s like these parents are the acting out kids themselves, and everyone that’s been to or is at school knows that the best approach is to just ignore.

I live at a time when Piers Morgan is the embodiment of the orthos logos.

It can feel like that. But not in this case.

There’s nothing to be accomplished and a lot of damage to be done by his parents treating this boy like a little sandwich-board promoter of their views (which seem to be a matter of whimsy, at least on their face).

It is true that first impressions last. I taught, many years ago, in an area of London with a large transient element, and into our school came the junior members of a genuine Marxist cell. (A rarity, even then) The parents believed in the self-determination of the child, to the extent that they would not cruelly impose oppressive hygiene routines on a child, and as we know, some little ones do not readily embrace the joys of cleanliness. The little chap concerned was pleasant and articulate, but minging, to put it bluntly. His parents maintained that they would not oppress him by insisting on a soap and water routine, (laziness dressed up as idealogical zeal?)maintaining that he would come to realise through peer pressure what needed to be done. Indeed he did, but your average juvenile Sarf Londoner does not always express themselves with utter tact, and by the time he had realised (painfully) and conformed, he carried some truly scatological nicknames with him. The pong went, the names lingered on. I don't know how this panned out; they moved in, they moved on. But it was sad at playtime to see him chatting to the duty teacher because he didn't really have a friendship group to play with; teachers intervened, of course, when other children refused to share a table "because he smells" but we weren't around to stick up for him when the school gates closed.
If your friends had his interests at heart, they would at least include shorts in the range of choices he has before him, and not use him as cannon-fodder for their idealogical battles.
By the way, I'm a Guardian reader, and I voted Remain, but I don't live in Islington, so not quite the full set......

Has the OP been back? I wish she would.

I hope this was a genuine concern of hers and not just something she has seized on to try and cause a stir in Mumsnet.

TBF if I found out some friends were going to do this I think one of my first thoughts would be that it would make a good Mumsnet thread. I know it's been done before but this type of thing always manages to cause a lot of controversy.