Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

Hopefully he will come to his senses by the time he has to start thinking about getting a job in the RW.

I feel sad for the poor chap.

Coolncalm I might well aware of the different types of child abuse. Letting your 4 year old boy child while likes dresses to wear a dress to school doesn't qualify unless there is a massive amount of backstory we're not party to.

Weird to see so many agreeing the gender stereotype should be adhered to. I thought we were working towards not being confined to gender boxes. A boy in a dress is just a boy in a dress and if anyone bats an eyelid that's their bad. But then, mn does love a bit of judgemental.

Bet this will turn up in the daily mail as a story about kids being transed against their will or some other bollocks

Same here cardiabach and my dds wore trousers in the 90s.

To me this is nonsense. Why make problems?

My DS preferred cardigans when he started Reception, so we bought him mostly cardigans and a couple of sweatshirts. By the end of Y1 he was solely in sweatshirts, due to mild bullying over the cardigans, and his need to fit in.
Children tend to conform, and frankly they have enough on their plate without naive parents making things harder.
Sure, give the kid pinafores in a range of uniform if he's strong-minded enough to want to wear it, but don't make it the only option.
Simply unfair.

How long does he have to conform?

He doesn't. But to present something like this as an entirely neutral choice, like "ham sandwich or cheese sandwich in your lunchbox?" Is disingenuous. This little boy is neither conforming nor choosing not to conform, because he is unaware of the norms and social mores that will surround him when he goes to school. His choice is therefore not an informed one.

People shouldn't conform to things they do not wish to. I believe that very strongly. But deliberately not to conform for the sake it, because you're "proudly unorthodox"? That's just attention seeking. And to push that agenda onto your child is inappropriate.

@REOlay you keep coming back and saying the same thing.

A lot of us adults might not bat an eyelid but a lot of school children will. That's just a fact. That isn't MN conforming to gender stereotypes. It's MN recognising that primary schools can be be difficult places for those that don't conform.

It's fine to have principles and dress how you want as an informed teen or adult who knows the consequences. This 4 year old doesn't know the consequences. His parents do but want to subject him to them.

A boy in a dress is just a boy in a dress and if anyone bats an eyelid that's their bad.

But it won't be "their bad", will it? No matter how vigilant school staff may try to be, that eyelid batting will translate into teasing and bullying. How many 4 year olds do you know who can just shrug that off?

But it doesn’t sound like there was a choice. Dresses were laid out for school and that was that. Also, being autistic might mean his life is more challenging anyway. At 4 how can he possibly make an informed choice. I’d also be interested to know if either the parents wear dresses and skirts to school or whether they just don’t gender confirm through their child.

Even if the boy did say he was happy wearing a dress it's only because of his bonkers parents steering him that way. Poor child will then be shocked to find that he's probably the only one and that boys usually don't wear dresses.

They are risking their kid suffering misery, just to show how brave & right on his parents are

It would be different if they had given him a choice of pinafores and trousers, but they didn't
They restricted his choice to options they decided.
They decided for him that right from day 1 he would be different to the other little boys in his school
What a start, when he needs to be making new friends

If he demands a pair of trousers the first day they collect him from school, will they instead still require him to be brave ?
Even if he then gets his trews, he'll probably be remembered throughout primary school as the odd boy who started school in a pinny.

Poor kid. His parents are a pair of stupid muppets.

Most parents want their kids to be happy at school.....not set them up to be teased for no reason. If he was begging to wear dresses that would be a bit different but he doesn’t sound like he is at all.

OP as a friend I think you ought to kindly point these issues out to the parents.

Have skimmed the thread.

I have recently started letting DS1 (7yo) and DS2 (6yo) start wearing t-shirts that are unmistakably from the 'girl' range in Primark, because they liked the styles. They realise these are more usually worn by girls, and don't care. They also have Trollz leggings, and I believe DS1 owns a tutu (which he has worn publicly).

At the age of 4, I would absolutely have not let either of them attend school in a dress or skirt. They'd have received ridicule, and wouldn't have understood why. It would have been unkind and unfair. They get it now and so now it's fine, but it wouldn't have been when they were smaller.

Of course the boy shouldn't be allowed, let alone encouraged, to dress in a way that will attract mockery from his peers and tend to separate him from friendships or potential friendships.

He's four. His parents and others around him have a duty towards him that includes his social welfare as well as his physical and mental welfare. Neither he nor his classmates are remotely capable of mature judgement and none of them should be criticised for childishly black-and-white ways of assessing the world and their expectations of it.

In this situation the 'let's attack gender barriers' point of view is modish bullshit.

ReoLay I think the issue with letting a boy wear a dress to school is more to do with how other kids react to it. There's no way i'd ever have set my child up for ridicule by allowing him to wear a dress. It shouldn't matter but it DOES matter if other kids are going to taunt him. Any parent that does that is an arsehole.

Just thinking about the day my little grandson started reception. How proud he was in his little uniform of grey pants and red jumper. I walked with my dd and him to school, all the little ones nervously looking round at all the similarly dressed other kids. How bloody embarrassing for him if there he was in the middle of the playground in a bloody pinafore dress, especially because he was a bit shy. The last thing a shy kid wants is to stand out from the crowd. Stupid stupid parents.

Freedom would be offering him all three options with no bias. This child has no freedom of expression when there no choice.
Definitely not enlightened parents, especially as the ASD will already make him stand out.

I just asked my dc (age 8 and 6) what they would think if a little boy started reception in September wearing a pinafore instead of trousers. Dd seemed to think it a strange question, frowned and replied ‘nothing’, and ds said “fine”.

As other pp’s have suggested, I do think children are more accepting than adults, and as is often the case when the cries of ‘he’ll be bullied!’ start (like on a lot of baby names threads), it turns out to be an overreaction.

All four choices: skirt, shorts, pinafore and trousers.

They might not bully him now. But they’ll remember it and might throw it in his face when he was older.

I moved primary school when I was 6yo and at 16yo started college. On the first day we had to introduce ourselves to the class and one boy shouted out that he remembered me from when we were 5yo/6yo and my mum used to make me wear a balaclava to walk to school in! The whole class thought that was hilarious!

The parents are using their 4 year old son as a strange experiment

I use queer as including, but not being limited to, gay

Oh good grief it just gets worse.

Are you in London by any chance? I sometimes think that place is on another planet, honestly.

I'm not in any way saying there is anything wring with being gay, just the OP's wanky description of it!

I do think children are more accepting than adults

After seeing the shit DD2's had to put up with from (admittedly a very cliquey cohort) the other kids in reception this year for having speech and balance problems and just being permanently dishevelled from falling over - I beg to differ. All the "oooh small children are so accepting" and she's had some absolutely fucking vile behaviour directed at her over the year.

Kids CAN be accepting - but why the fuck would you want to mark your kid out - especially if they're a child who is going to stand out anyhow?

Attention seeking wankers, that's all. So bloody "right on" but they're not actually giving him a choice at all.

coolncalm you have a really warped understanding of bullying. Bullying doesn’t happen because the victim did something to stand out nor is it prevented by conforming to some bizarre ideal created by 12yos. If a cool boy wears a dress and owns it, chances are half the boys will be wearing a dress the next day. Bullying comes from the bully’s insecurities and desire to validate themselves by bringing down others. They pick on a weakness, they don’t pick on a dress. The solution can’t be to try to make a child conform as much as possible because there will always be a chink in the armour.

Even if 4 year olds didn't mark him out, you can be sure as he grows older it'd happen. Would the kid want to sit in a classroom full of 12 year olds in a dress.