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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think chivalry is dead?

426 replies

CrispyBanger · 18/07/2018 20:52

Got the train home today from London at rush hour. It was packed, not a spare seat to be had. At the front of the train there are always a few unreserved seats, including 3 sets of priority seating and 2 tables. I sat in a priority seat. Of the other priority seats, 3 were taken by men with a further 7 men in the table seats.

Obviously pregnant lady (with a baby on board badge for extra measure) got on and stood in the aisle as it was so packed. I looked around expecting someone i.e. a man to offer their seat but no one did. I stood up and she took my seat.

Now, obviously there's a slim chance that the other people in the priority seating had non-visible seating needs but it's unlikely they all did. Am I showing my age or is it no longer the done thing to offer a seat to the elderly/pregnant ladies etc?

Incidentally, when I stood in the aisle a man sat at the table offered me his seat . So he didn't feel like he should offer it to a heavily pregnant lady but he did to a an obviously non pregnant lady?

OP posts:

Sirzy · 18/07/2018 22:14

A woman’s choice of shoes as a reason why they should be able to sit instead of a man. Seriously??

9amTrain · 18/07/2018 22:16

Yes, why is it supposed to be a man?

We shouldn't be seperating by men and women, it should be by able or not imo.

Bombardier25966 · 18/07/2018 22:17

My boobs make it very difficult to stay upright

Back in the real world, I'd never expect a man to stand up for me. I'm far more able to do so than my Dad, or in fact my partner, so the idea of them moving for me is just silly.

Vashna, you need to see a doctor, or give yourself a shake. I can't work out if you're unwell or living in a different century, but your reasoning is nonsensical.

Katri0na · 18/07/2018 22:18

I work in a male environment, and I am happy to say that at least around me chivalry is not dead, and for that I am very grateful

yerbutnobut · 18/07/2018 22:18

Oh come on...please do not use hormones as a plausible argument for possibly being more tired than a man!
If a man gave up his seat for a woman seemingly not needing it and that woman questioned his intentions and he then gave an answer along the lines of hormones, my god can you imagine?

Lookingforspace · 18/07/2018 22:19

I will stand there and enjoy it, and the benefits it brings for myself and my daughter

^ This absolutely. I would expect both my son and daughter to offer their seat. I would not expect either to assume it was my son’s job to do so. How can I bring him up to see any future partner as his equal if I’m also telling him that manners mean different things for men? They both know he is physically stronger than her but strength is not the same as stamina and thankfully neither are really called for during a half hour train ride.

EdWinchester · 18/07/2018 22:22

My experience of men being 'chivalrous' is actually men completely patronising me.

My boss will swear, but apologise for swearing if it's in front of me

I have a colleague who not only holds open the door for me to go through first, but does it with a simpering 'ladies first' . I have told him he's lamentably old fashioned btw.

I will hold open a door for anyone behind me to follow me and would expect the same treatment from anyone else. Don't treat me differently because I am a woman.

I am not infirm or pregnant or in special need of a seat on public transport. I would be very irritated if a man offered me his seat.

Sweetpea55 · 18/07/2018 22:22

DH would give his seat to any lady who was standing. Holds doors open and always walks on the outside of the pavement. It makes him angry when other men don't do this.

PurpleDaisies · 18/07/2018 22:23

People who are more able to stand should stand for those who are less able, irrespective of sex.

I really dislike aggressive “chivalry” where a man decides I am not allowed to stand or open a door because of my chromosomes and makes a huge deal of trying to do it for me.

PurpleDaisies · 18/07/2018 22:24

My experience of men being 'chivalrous' is actually men completely patronising me.

Cross posted with you. Yes, this is exactly it.

EdWinchester · 18/07/2018 22:26

Holds doors open and always walks on the outside of the pavement

What? In case a passing stagecoach splashes their crinolines?

I would laugh if a man even attempted this.

avamiah · 18/07/2018 22:36

I live in London and travel on the tube everyday and sometimes with my 8 year old daughter when she is going to dance class and we are travelling at peak time and it’s very busy so I always say to her that you probably won’t get a seat for a few stops as it is my choice to travel at that time and I wouldn’t expect anybody man or woman to give up their seat for my child but men and woman offer all the time and I always decline but sometimes they will insist so I say thank you and let her sit down but if a elderly person or pregnant lady gets on then she will give up her seat .

avamiah · 18/07/2018 22:45

On a lighter note, I remember once I was going out in the evening and had one of those fitted black dresses on and a open jacket and then got onto the tube and this guy got up and offered me his seat .
Well I said no thank you but it ruined my night as I thought he thought I was pregnant because I had a bit of a tummy and it really showed in the dress .😟.
You know what happened to that dress?
It went in the bin .haha
So it’s not always great if a guy offers you his seat .

Onwhitehorses · 18/07/2018 22:47

DH would give his seat to any lady who was standing. Holds doors open and always walks on the outside of the pavement. It makes him angry when other men don't do this.

My DH wouldn't give his seat to any 'lady' who was standing, but he would, and does, take on sexism in national organisations such as the FA. He doesnt understand why other people wouldn't do this.

Disquieted1 · 18/07/2018 23:01

With so many dickhead men nowadays saying "We are pregnant" maybe we should offer them our seats.

Lookingforspace · 18/07/2018 23:36

@Sweetpea55, does he not hold doors open for whoever is behind him irrespective of their sex?

I am deliberately not bringing my sons up to say things like ‘ladies first’ and to stand to let any able bodied woman sit. Likewise, I am hopefully bringing up my DD to find such behaviour bizarre. I am however, bring them all up to believe that those less able to stand should be offered a seat. To teach any of them that ‘less able’ includes having a vagina is ridiculous. Both DH and I, by habit, tend to walk on the outside of the pavement when with the children even though they are no longer little but that’s parental instinct rather than anything else.

Your DH must be getting frequently and unnecessarily angry at a lot of well brought up, well mannered young men.

avamiah · 18/07/2018 23:39

Disquieted1,
Haha, omg that makes me cringe, why do they say that.??
Yuk

blackteasplease · 18/07/2018 23:44

pallisers is absolutely right.

That said I have also raised my dd (9) to give up her seat for those who need it.

Men are generally better able to stand than women, even putting aside the needs of newly pregnant women and the way having jad children can throw your balance completely.

What is unsightly in the extreme is the way many men these days use their sixe and strength to shove their way onto trains first and nab all the seats.

But yes, isn't it amazing chivalry has died long before anything resembling equality has emerged.

EdWinchester · 18/07/2018 23:46

Men are generally better able to stand than women

WTAF?

blackteasplease · 18/07/2018 23:46

There's no need to hold doors or walk on tue outside of the pavement though.

blackteasplease · 18/07/2018 23:49

Disabilities aside, they are.

They are stronger, their centre of gravity is different - they generally have shorted legs as a proportion if their body. They are a different shape. Women who have had children can find their ability to stand on the spot (i.e. not walking) completely fucked - backache, pelvic aches etc can go on permanently. So yes men are,, in general, better able to stand.

Disquieted1 · 19/07/2018 00:02

Men are not better able to stand. Those saggy arses and beer bellies tend to make them topple.

avamiah · 19/07/2018 00:06

Disquieted1,
Hahaha,
Not all men are built like that .
My OH looks like stick man compared to me. 😂😂

TornFromTheInside · 19/07/2018 00:06

Men's center of gravity is higher than women's on average, making it harder to stand.
Also their legs are proportionally longer too.

Sources:
www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a074807.pdf
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872302/

IAmNotAWitch · 19/07/2018 00:08

We don't need chivalry, we need the respect of equals.

My sons are on their feet if someone needs their seat more than them, I would teach them the same as if they were daughters.

They open doors, they assist people.

Guess who they learned this behaviour from? A man & a woman.

If everyone keeps and eye out for everyone else, things will go much better for both sexes.

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