To think chivalry is dead?

[CrispyBanger]

Got the train home today from London at rush hour. It was packed, not a spare seat to be had. At the front of the train there are always a few unreserved seats, including 3 sets of priority seating and 2 tables. I sat in a priority seat. Of the other priority seats, 3 were taken by men with a further 7 men in the table seats.

Obviously pregnant lady (with a baby on board badge for extra measure) got on and stood in the aisle as it was so packed. I looked around expecting someone i.e. a man to offer their seat but no one did. I stood up and she took my seat.

Now, obviously there's a slim chance that the other people in the priority seating had non-visible seating needs but it's unlikely they all did. Am I showing my age or is it no longer the done thing to offer a seat to the elderly/pregnant ladies etc?

Incidentally, when I stood in the aisle a man sat at the table offered me his seat . So he didn't feel like he should offer it to a heavily pregnant lady but he did to a an obviously non pregnant lady?

I love that chivalry is not dead, some men still have manners and treat women with a bit more respect! There are a lot of "feminists" on MN, but in the real world, we are not yet gender neutral.

Life would be so much easier if we accepted differences between male and female instead of pretending they are not, unless the feminists suddenly remember when it's better to be treated as a woman.

I think someone in a priority seat who didn’t need it should have stood - which is exactly what happened.

Equality is a good thing

But i do think it’s gone so able bodied men are the demographic of people least likely to offer a seat up.

I recall back when i was pg, the only ppl who would ever offer a seat were women. I recall one time at the ante natal clinic on a particularly busy day there were expectant fathers blithely sat there while several pregnant women stood.

We shouldn’t need chivalry and like most women i’m happy to stand, pay my own way etc, but it would be nice if men met us halfway in the modernisation stakes. Equal pay and not being raped or murdered a whole bunch would be pretty sweet. Oh well.

Do women have more headaches than men? I don't ever feel weak and feeble unless I'm genuinely ill.

They should bring back fainting couches on trains

Kat I don't want to be gender neutral. I want to be a woman. Equal to a man other than in the fathering or in pure physical strength stakes.

Those were the days

We'd sing and dance forever and a day

I’m not sure about headaches, to be fair, but women do have more hormonal issues that can make you feel more tired. Plus women’s shoes aren’t generally designed for comfort - this is a huge factor.

And the answer to that is for women to be treated as more feeble? Rather than for women, like men, to wear shoes that are designed to support feet and enable walking?

And I say that as someone who wears my fair share of uncomfortable shoes!

Women can wear whatever shoes they like. All mine are comfortable. I'll send you some links.

Chivalry can’t die fast enough for me, I want to be equal and I don’t want to be seen as weaker by virtue of my genitals.

I find men holding doors for me and not asking me to carry heavy items or expecting me not to drive on work trips patronising.

Well I must admit I hate very flat shoes and that’s my own fault. I’m reasonably fit - ish. I ran a half marathon. But I do get days when I feel wiped out and I can only put it down to hormonal factors. Anyway, I would be livid if DH sat down and made me stand on a tube. I think I’d just get off in a huff and get an Uber. I dont expect random men to get up for me, but I respect them more if they do.

We used to call them 'manners' and common decency. Both sadly lacking today.

Who is 'we'? Is it the same 'we' who thought it was OK for women to be expected to stay at home, have no career, be subservient to men and if by any chance they did manage to work, to be paid less for what they did?

I couldn't be equal to a man even if I wanted to. There's a reason why most physical tests have different levels for men and women. I am reasonably fit, but most men around me are physically stronger. They are also taller.

There wouldn't be so much anger about men joining female sport if we were that equal.

Even Primary School kids understand the difference: they are equal, but boys cannot fight girls even if they strike first.

I don't feel devalued when men acknowledge that I am a woman and behave differently.

I bloody hope chivalry is dead!

Courtesy and consideration apply to everyone.

Its the hypocrisy that is ridiculous.

Women are strictly equal to men, but hold on, of course we need special treatment and need our own sports.

It is dead.

Don't know why people are glad about that

A lot if other threads on here state that men are twats etc etc but then you have this where people are saying they hope chivalry is dead.

Can't win!

Of course there are anatomical differences. And even within sports there are different catabolises to allow fairness.
And no one wants a world where every one Is dothing their cap to each other, or being aggressively self promoting like the hunger games. But there is a place in between. Let's live there shall we?

I wouldn't call it chivalry. That is far too grand a name for a bit of common courtesy.

I think if you want a seat you have got to at least try to make eye contact to signal that and the person sitting down should try to make eye contact back.

Shouting, shoulder tapping etc is awkward especially when the person doesn't want to sit down or is offended that they look old. Then you get insistent people and the "I'm getting off at the next stop" argument.

I actually think the man offering a seat is based an old fashioned logic that any woman of child bearing age could be pregnant and the bit where you feel tired and sick is at the start when it doesn't show. Women did used to have more babies on average.

I agree with this. When I was just pregnant with my first I was exhausted in a way I was never before or since. I looked like a fit young woman but I'd have given anything for there to be a system in place where all women were offered a seat just in case they were pregnant!

I think anyone - male or female - should offer a seat to a heavily pregnant woman or anyone who looks like they might need it. It shouldn't be confined to men.

That said, amazing how chivalry managed to die much faster than equality thrived. All those women not being offered seats because equality has replaced chivalry are probably doing 90 percent of the housework, most of the childcare, working but not progressing as fast as their male counterparts because of maternity leaves/sick days for kids etc (and of course have husband who "are great dads")