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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think chivalry is dead?

426 replies

CrispyBanger · 18/07/2018 20:52

Got the train home today from London at rush hour. It was packed, not a spare seat to be had. At the front of the train there are always a few unreserved seats, including 3 sets of priority seating and 2 tables. I sat in a priority seat. Of the other priority seats, 3 were taken by men with a further 7 men in the table seats.

Obviously pregnant lady (with a baby on board badge for extra measure) got on and stood in the aisle as it was so packed. I looked around expecting someone i.e. a man to offer their seat but no one did. I stood up and she took my seat.

Now, obviously there's a slim chance that the other people in the priority seating had non-visible seating needs but it's unlikely they all did. Am I showing my age or is it no longer the done thing to offer a seat to the elderly/pregnant ladies etc?

Incidentally, when I stood in the aisle a man sat at the table offered me his seat Confused. So he didn't feel like he should offer it to a heavily pregnant lady but he did to a an obviously non pregnant lady?

OP posts:
Vashna · 19/07/2018 07:07

Not a bad product Francine Grin

To answer the question, “do you think women are the weaker sex?” Well, physically yes, as a general rule. Not mentally or emotionally though. Being physically stronger doesn’t mean you are a superior sex either. This is obvious. Of course there will be some women who are stronger than some men, just as there will be some pensioners with more physical stamina than some 30 year olds. But social codes, eg who should get seats, exist because of generalised differences.

StealthPolarBear · 19/07/2018 07:12

Yes in general most men are stronger than most women, that's why we need separate sports.
However most day to day situations, opening a door, standing on the tube, earning money, voting, do not require even a fraction of a woman's inferior strength. That's why this is utterly ridiculous.

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2018 07:12

This thread is turning into Mumsnet bingo. So far we've had mil bashing, feminists are mean to men who hold doors open ("it's true-it happened to my dh, and she had hairy legs-he says he's scared to try to be polite any more") and the new classic "if women want to be equal why do they want separate sports?" Anyone spotted any others?

StealthPolarBear · 19/07/2018 07:13

There's no way I could have saved those Thai boys. I'll leave that to the few men and presumably fewer women who physically and mentally can. But I can stand on the tube, walk by the road and make my own decisions.

TornFromTheInside · 19/07/2018 07:13

Equality doesn't mean identical. We have differences and celebrate them, just as we enjoy differences between the same sex.

Courtesy is no bad thing it should be something that we all exercise. Chivalry is a little bit more complex as it's probably steeped in male and female stereotypes and does tend to portray women as the weaker sex.

I was brought up to always give my chair up for a woman and that is a very difficult habit to break. Doesn't make me a bad guy, probably just a bit quirky these days.

giving your seat up for somebody who is obviously in need is an entirely different matter, male or female. We should also be mindful that disabilities are not always obvious, but that again should apply to men and women.

StealthPolarBear · 19/07/2018 07:15

Bertrand I've seen you can't have it all and if you want equality you should stand.
Fine. I'll reverse that. If you want a man who gives up his seat for you just because you're a woman and walks on the outside then you mustn't expect to have any say into the family's financial decision making. You shoudltn work. Or get drunk.
Now who wants "it all"?

Vashna · 19/07/2018 07:20

I think sometimes the tubes are so crowded that it’s hard for men to offer seats because maybe the woman can’t get to it anyway. Nobody likes a scene or fuss.

Vashna · 19/07/2018 07:27

Stealth - in the name of equality, if you woke up last night and could hear a possible burglar, would you have woken you DH up ir would you have gone down yourself?

If you were moving house would you insist on carrying things of an equal load, just in case it may impact your job prospects or independence?

It’s a bit too binary to say chivalry must equate to women not being able to work or something. Manners are different to misogyny and hopefully most people can still distinguish the difference!

agapanthus1979 · 19/07/2018 07:36

Haven't read the whole thread, mainly because I'm finding it so depressing.
Women are no more entitled to a seat than a man. Ok, you offered your seat to a pregnant woman. That's manners. It shouldn't be the 'job' of a man.
The bit that really gets me is the suggestion someone made that men find it easier to stand for prolonged periods?!?!? Utter bollocks. That just perpetuates the ridiculous myth that women are fragile and pathetic.
Chivalry is not the same as basic good manners. You want chivalry? Fine; you also have to have the rest of what the Middle Ages offered. Good luck with that.
I'm now going to stand for ages, just cos I can....

TillyMint81 · 19/07/2018 07:38

the average man would find standing easier than a woman of the same age - very generally speaking.

This actually made my face do this ConfusedHmm

StealthPolarBear · 19/07/2018 07:47

Dd did wake up the other night and said she'd heard a noise downstairs, I checked.

Iputthescrewinthetuna · 19/07/2018 07:50

If a burglar was in my home, I would possibly be more scary that my DP, protective mother mode would instantly kick in. DP would show fear, I wouldn't.

StealthPolarBear · 19/07/2018 07:52

And yes I fairly recently carried the boxes that dds mid sleeper came in from the garage up to her room for assembly by myself.
But if you read my posts I clearly say that on average men are stronger than women anyway. But both sexes are more than capable of standing up. Surely.

FrancinePefko42 · 19/07/2018 07:59

Who kills the spiders in your house? That's what I'd like to know

StealthPolarBear · 19/07/2018 08:02

Whoever is around deals with them, we don't kill them we put them out.
What is this all trying to prove?

BarbarianMum · 19/07/2018 08:02

This'd be why you dont see many women working in retail. Confused

I couldnt have rescued those Thai boys either. But one of the Thai navy doctors was a woman....

Iputthescrewinthetuna · 19/07/2018 08:02

Who kills the spiders! Grin

I was 7 months pregnant, DP spotted a spider on the ceiling. Jumped out of bed and left me to stand on bed, stretch up to the ceiling to get it out.

Onwhitehorses · 19/07/2018 08:07

So he'd presumably hang onto his seat because it's his and he wants it and he's having it?

If someone needed it more, ie they were disabled, ill or elderly, he would give his seat up. Just as he always offers to help anyone with multiple bags/children/prams/pushchair etc regardless of their sex. Why would he give up his seat just because someone is a woman? I genuinely don't get that.

And yes, he is lovely, thank you for realising Grin

rainbowsandsmiles · 19/07/2018 08:07

This thread is turning into Mumsnet bingo.

You're right,it is - and you score one. Hear things I don't like or agree with, roll out the hilaire "oooh, I call bingo!" line. Hmm

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2018 08:18

Oh come on, rainbow-don't you think it's funny that someone has managed to shoehorn a bit of mil bashing onto a thread about the death of chivalry? Grin

claraschu · 19/07/2018 08:20

No one should be killing spiders.

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2018 08:21

Hey, hang on, SPB-I'm on your side!

Shortstuff08 · 19/07/2018 08:22

It makes him angry when other men don't do this.

He gets angry when men don't walk on the outside. He needs to calm down.

My Dp shows courtesy to anyone. For example a woman was trying to reach for something off a high shelf. She was about 5ft tall he is 6ft 4. He offered to get it down for her. He has also offered help to men in similar situations. He helped a bloke load a chair into a car at Ikea the other day.

He didn't get angry because other men in the area didn't help either of these people.

My dad is the same. He holds doors for anyone, would offer his seat to anyone who may need it more. Yes, at work he has been challenged by 1 woman in particular who asked him he if thought she didn't know how doors worked. He didn't get all butt hurt about it. Just pointed out that if she watched him, he holds doors for anyone.

An as for the 'hormones mean women needs seats more, get a grip. Imagine if a man said 'excuse me do you want my seat, you look like you might be experiencing Aunt Flow', it's the equivalent of 'what's up, you look miserable....must bevthat time of the month'.

I don't even know where to start with posters who have a strop if their male partner took a seat and didn't give it to them or offer their seat up for an able bodied woman.

JacquesHammer · 19/07/2018 08:32

Stealth - in the name of equality, if you woke up last night and could hear a possible burglar, would you have woken you DH up ir would you have gone down yourself?

I live alone. I’ve also gone to my parents house when their burglar alarm showed “door tamper”. What do you think women who live alone do? Confused

If you were moving house would you insist on carrying things of an equal load, just in case it may impact your job prospects or independence?

We move down ourselves twice. We didn’t weight everything but I did an equal amount of work. I then renovated the house whilst dad worked.

All this “weaker female” stuff is nonsense for average day-to-day tasks.

Shortstuff08 · 19/07/2018 08:40

I am a lone parent. If i thought I heard a burgular, I would go down myself. Probably making loads of noise walking across the bedroom. Most burgular do not want a confrontation. My Dp lives, less than 2 minutes away. I wouldn't ring him even though he could be here very quickly. It would take him longer to get his motorbike out than the actual journey.

Both me and DP have moved houses recently. We both did equal stuff. Both loaded vans, both built furniture, both cleaned. He is a lot stronger than me, so if I couldn't lift something he would have have not a go. But I don't recall that happening.

Dp is stronger than me, but in everyday tasks it doesn't make a huge difference. I can't recall a time I have had to call him and get him to come round because I can't physically do something. The washing machine was an arse to plumb in. Neither of us could figure it out. The valve seemed to be missing. My dad did it for me. Cause he is a plumber. That's why I called him, he wouldn't charge me and knew what he was doing because that's his job. Not because he is a bloke.