Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

Right, so a campaign bank rolled by neo liberal elites is going to lead to a socialist paradise? Peak bonkers.

We are on course for hard brexit 8% GDP loss, 3 million jobs gone. Let’s see how disgruntled people are after that.

"Fact is, as lives get harder under the Europe umberella, which they’re set to, no doubt about it, people will increasingly choose to leave when they can"

Yet you have just stated that 2 of the countries in the top 5 for living standards exist under that umbrella.

Go have a look at these rankings for social progress.

Top 12 have 9/12 either in the EU or EEA/Single market.

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/countries-with-the-highest-standard-of-living-social-progress-index/

Stop pretending it’s not going to happen.

And I'm sure you'll be able to quote me saying that.

In fact using that list, the EU countries make up 28 of the top 37 countries.

Wow such a terrible thing.

Does it not make you a but embarrassed to have each and every argument you give taken apart?

What is this tosh about milk and dairy products? We're almost self-sufficient in milk production in the UK. We choose to import a lot of cheese and butter because everyone likes a bit of Edam, Gouda, Brie, Feta, stupidly cheap Dutch cheddar and Lurpak. It would only take a change in buying habits and a marginal increase in production to avoid importing any dairy at all. Some processed food prices would increase slightly, simply because industrial users who buy the cheapest possible cheese/milk/butter/whey would pay marginally more for their ingredients.

There is potential spare milk production capacity in the industry if the market's there.

topcat remember I’m a remainer, however I have empathy for people who voted to leave. You’re correct overall in that EU migrants have contributed hugely to our economy. On the whole they are young so don’t put strain on the NHS (bar maternity and GP services). And it’s not their fault that the government didn’t put the infrastructure in to cope with their arrival.

However anecdotally there is lots of evidence to suggest a big influx of migrants to small towns put pressure on schools, jobs and housing. People aren’t stupid, they could see it for themselves.

When resources are few people turn against each other. People who are perceived to be less deserving because they haven’t paid taxes all their lives etc will inevitably be resented.

NHS wages have only risen this year for the first time since austerity because we have staff shortages. A significant contributor to that is that EU citizens are leaving and not bothering to come here.

I’m not saying any of this isn’t right, and certainly I 100% blame the successive governments for it all. But it’s the truth.

Life is going to get harder out of the EU government impact assessments state this. Why will no leaver acknowledge them? Stop fighting yesterday’s battles. We are leaving, what are the benefits?

Mother

Feel free to find your own ‘links’
It’s pretty obvious that we are not in some golden age of Europe, mass migration into all major countries, Greece’s problems, Italy’s problems, the general unrest in France compounded with all the terrorist attacks.

The rise of the far right all over the EU.

Fishea

Try reading this.

www.farminguk.com/news/-Dairy-dilemma-Brexit-may-lead-to-dairy-shortage-and-price-hikes-_49813.html

We could’ve used existing powers to put an emergency halt on migration

The UK government could have used the powers it already had to keep a lid on EU movement, as other EU member countries do (European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC). We didn't need an emergency halt. The question is why did we never enforce existing powers?

Buenos dias
Funnily enough all these 'amazing' trade deals the UK will be signing (which will likely take about 10 years to come to fruition) will inevitably incorporate the 'movement' of people. India have already specified this. The likely upshot of Brexshit will actually be increased immigration, not less

Fact is, as lives get harder under the Europe umberella, which they’re set to, no doubt about it, people will increasingly choose to leave when they can

That's not a FACT, it's a personal opinion.

An opinion based on what is actually happening in Europe.

There are some commentators in Ireland is concerned about the impact of beef exports to the UK and the take over of Brazilian exports - however, I can't see this given that both China and the EU have banned Brazilian meat.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-39334648

And obviously people will vote out if life gets unbearable.

This is just common sense

It would only take a change in buying habits and a marginal increase in production to avoid importing any dairy at all

Oh, is that all?

Someone like me, who is lucky to be able to afford more than stupidly cheap, can probably absorb an increase. A lot of people's 'buying habits', though, are dictated strictly by cost and the cost increasing even only 'slightly' would make a big difference to what they could afford to consume.

As with many things Brexit-related, those with little wiggle room will be the worst affected.

It’s not common sense if you blame the wrong thing for your life being unbearable. That’s just stupidity

Darling

If we stop importing products and actually keep our spending local, the economy will improve and inflation won’t be as drastic. I realise that will take some time to adjust, but really, it’s going to happen one way or the other

"However anecdotally there is lots of evidence to suggest a big influx of migrants to small towns put pressure on schools, jobs and housing. People aren’t stupid, they could see it for themselves. "

Yes it is anecdotal and anecdotes are of course tainted by people's preconceived prejudices. People can see it for themselves?

Well in the much referred to Boston, the reason the maternity ward in the hospital is still open is because of the immigrants incresing the birth rate. 96 % of children get their first choice school.

But the people still were concerned about immigration, and were when it was a tiny proportion of the population.

What it suggests more than anything is that people don't like change.