Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

If the leaflet mentioned NI it would have been dubbed project fear, like everything else that is now coming true.

time4chocolate - I don't disagree but unfortunately it doesn't make it any less of an issue for the EU.

You can follow how Vote Leave broke the law, and is now being referred to the Police here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992

Check out the video too. The Government has to act accordingly on this. It's not something to be fudged or kicked out into the long grass.

If exiting the EU had gone smoothly then I wouldn't be posting on these threads. The truth of the matter is that this Government has taken the position that it's up shit creek without a paddle. Because of this I am angry.

I couldn't give a fiddler's why anyone voted. I care now, as should everyone, about the current mess we are all in. I'm not about to wish upon a star about the outcome either.

I've included cliches deliberately, because this whole thing is descending into a farce.

The remain campaign did mention Northern Ireland.

It was dismissed as project fear.

Ghost - that’s a crap excuse for what should have been a top priority in a Pro EU leaflet.

Can't we actually move on from remainers and leavers and how the campaigns were won or lost and blah blah blah

We should all now be looking at what is ACTUALLY happening in government and what the future will be like when we leave. We all have a stake in the future of the country no matter how we voted, and it's fine to be a leave voter who looks at how it's going and thinks it's shit!

I have no superiority whatsoever, I just don't want massive damage to be inflicted on the vast majority of people.

It would have been possible to leave the country in a sensible and orderly way (where did I hear that?). That's looking increasingly unlikely and it's extremely worrying! Our government is teetering on the brink and threatening a General Election in order to whip votes. with so little time to go this is the last thing the country needs.

We need to get away from this tribalalistic focus on how people voted, and get more engaged with the actual consequences of what is happening in parliament right now.

@user, if you bring up illegal wars such as Irak, let me remind you France was utterly against it and stood up to the US, unlike Blair.
Germany & France aren't the ones supporting illegal wars.

So, is everyone who voted leave really happy that we are lining up for a No Deal/WTO Brexit that will see the UK lose 8% of our GDP every year for 10 years, with the worst hit areas being the same ones that were already hit during the late 70s/80s? And that unemployment will go up by over 2M? (Not all bankers, btw - auto industry, aerospace will be big sectors to be hit.)

There was an alternative plan for leaving that wouldn't have led to that outcome, but apparently it's not the will of the people. Why do "the people" want to go through so much more pain?

It’s no good trying to rewrite history now. Project fear was used to shut down every remain argument.

If you were daft enough to rely solely on a Tory pamphlet for information more fool you. NI was brought up in many tv debates. You were warned. Don’t plead ignorance. Own your shit. You won remember?

Topcat you are obtusely spectacularly missing the point.

Regardless of the political inns and outs of the heavy industries shutting down all over Europe and becoming German, it HAPPENED and people watched it, then the lives they had rebuilt from the ashes was also taken by Eastern European trades people. You can umm and ahh and put all the fucking ‘well actually old fellows’ before your words all you like. This is what working class people saw and what scripted their choice.

Like it or not, that is what the voice of the working class have been saying. LISTEN for a change

Project Fear is still being used, even though industry is now coming out and outlining the real life consequences of leaving. It's still 'scaremongering'.

But no, lets focus on how you feel patronised by remainers and the fact you won and we need to get over it.

The bloody referendum was 2 years ago, we should be basking in the light of all the benefits we are now going to see in a mere 8 months!

Not pissing and moaning and arguing and letting a small minority of hardliners in government steer us towards crashing out. That wasn't in the Leave campaign?

As far as Northern Ireland is concerned however my opinion is that we should get a free trade deal so the whole hard border problem is not relevant.

Do you think we should continue having free movement of people as well, and if not, how do you propose we stop people with the right to live in the EU from crossing the border from Ireland to Northern Ireland?

It's good to see a leave supporter finally admit that Brexit will be bad for NI, even if they are trying to dodge all responsibility be passing the blame onto the remain campaign.

I voted based on economic grounds rather than on moral grounds. The economic implications of a hard Brexit will be job losses which will have an effect on the poorest on society. However, if people have researched and looked at the economic problems associated with a hard Brexit and been willing for people to lose their livelihoods - then yes, I would question their morality.

In order to get that free trade deal with regard to the Northern Irish border, every country in the EU has to ratify it.

Perhaps Northern Ireland will become a place for refugees to go in order to get into the UK, via this wishy washy 'free movement' thingy. It's totally bonkers.

May is now off to Northern Ireland on a two day visit to reassure that the border issue will be okay. Who exactly will she speak to? The NI Assembly isn't sitting. Yet another fudge and delaying tactic.

Ghost - I actually don’t remember even getting a leaflet and if I had it wouldn’t have personally made a difference to my vote and I am happy to own my shit.

My point still stands, it should have been in the leaflet and it wasn’t.

Maybe DC should have also taken the advice that was offered to him from Ireland on how to run a referendum but no he thought better on that too.

Re Northern Ireland I'm just going to leave (no pun intended) this here:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-dup-brexit-donations-saudi-arabia-tale-tories-theresa-may-a7782681.html

I am trying to work how why anyone would think that a free trade deal means no hard borders. The US/Canada/Mexico have had a comprehensive free trade agreement for 20+ years now, but they have hard borders and lots of customs checks.

*No, the leave campaign just pandered to people's prejudices and told them they were right.

Even when they are actually wrong.

Boston, Lincs is always brought up as an example.

But if you know Boston, and its council, you will know that the "concerns" about immigration were there back in the 1990s, with the same reasons or "anguish" trotted out when the immigrant population of the town was about 1% ( its now 10).

The same "concerns" were trotted out about the Windrush generation too.

Its funny that isn't it?*

By doubling down on it you make a compelling counterpoint to the idea that people have pressed on with the same thing as if they have learnt nothing.

So, is the best way to make sure there are enough jobs in the future to make all British families only one child each? Just to make sure there aren't too many people competing.

Controversial statement: I suspect many remainers who voted remain did so because they didn't want to be seen as morally inferior. I also know (quite casual) racists who voted remain. I don't know any hardcore racists so don't know how they voted.

What about the people who didn't want to see the UK losing 8% of its GDP year-on-year for 10 years? How did their morals stack up in your peer group, rocket?

Friday Thirteenth - absolutely