Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

I just cannot get my head around isolationism in an era when we are more connected than ever by media/ transport etc.
I like what the EU stands for...we are stronger together.
My dad voted leave as he is worried about immigration. His partner is an immigrant who gas been in the UK for the past 50 years working. She was devadted by the leave result. Tbh I find it embarrassing that my dad cannot see how voting leave would affect her emotionally.
Its all part of this nationiat rule Britannia bullshit. Embarrassing.

Nationalist even

I only voted remain because the politicians clearly had no idea what they would do and how it would affect us if we left. They still don't, other than the outcome isn't looking great.

If they had had a full plan, properly worked out, with all issues having been covered and PROVING we would benefit from this, I would have voted leave. But without proof, I don't believe change is good just for the sake of change, which this is. Too many unknowns, too many variables, I don't like it. I hope it will work though, but I'm not convinced.

I did the same for Scottish independence. They couldn't prove we'd be better off, so I voted no.

I don't trust any politician at all, they are only out for themselves, no one else. This change won't affect them, guaranteed. The rest of us? God knows.

Asking about Euratom is bigoted? Who knew?

This reminds me of the early post ref threads.

You’d ask a MN Brexiteers a question about Brexit and they wouldnt reply: but instead they’d tell you how intelligent they are and how dare you.

It was v odd. I had never known people to debate quite like it.

I wasn’t referring to Eurotam. Reading comprehension not your strong point?

Reading comprehension not your strong point?

Ooh, was that perhaps a bit of patronising sneering condescension? It can't be, because that's a Remainer-only thing.

Victoria B07 I'm a remain voter and I'm not calling anyone racist. I raised a perfectly valid concern on the previous page about my fear that the legislation that we rely on to protect us (quality of goods, quality of services, employment rights) could be compromised by brexit voting politicians.

f they had had a full plan, properly worked out, with all issues having been covered and PROVING we would benefit from this, I would have voted leave

This

The voting stats show that (in general) leavers are less well educated, lower earning and older, these are facts....if you do those?

Also, those in work and paying taxes, voted by a majority to stay.

If anyone thinks their employment rights, educational, health or public services are safe in the hands of JRM, L. Fox or Ian Duncan Smith... then you really are thick.

Isitsixocockalready thanks for that. I agree those are valid concerns yet these laws don’t necessarily come from the EU. Im sure you won’t miss these www.businessinsider.com/eu-directives-law-2011-12?IR=T

More on workers rights assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714378/7.pdf

behind the scenes the actual heads of Euratom and their British counterpart are preparing

I would indeed think that this is happening. But (like the fucking Millennium Bug myth that Leavers keep plopping-and-running despite numerous debunkings) if medical life-saving supplies are kept flowing post-Brexit, it will be due to those ghastly elite experts doing actual work to make it happen - NOT because of recitations of meaningless empty slogans of Positivity and BeLeaving in Sunlit Unicorns.

well of the three 'leave' voters that I know, between them they have five or six degrees, from Oxford or TCD and London, and two of them have mixed race kids, the other one is an immigrant.

so I do find this 'oh leavers are racist/thick' a bit grating.

Your post OP did remind me of something that was said to me the day after the referendum. I am an immigrant, and was sitting with mostly English people at local pub having a drink. One said ' we're just fed up with immigrants taking our jobs and taking our children's places in school' - I reminded her that I was 'one of those immigrants'!

What she said to me: 'but you're fine. You're white, and you don't even have an accent when you speak English. And you go to church and all'.

That's what did it for me I'm afraid. Loads of people think like this. It's fine for me to take one of 'your' jobs if I am white and speak good English and am a Christian.

It that ain't racist...

To be honest, unemoonit, if someone opens their gob and a load of irrational ignorant rubbish comes out, as it invariably does where leave voters are involved, I tend to think they might be a bit daft.
As a rule of thumb it’s served me well for 43 years and I don’t propose to abandon it now.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast

thats why i said "in general" i also know a surgeon who is a out an out brexitier but the stats show....... google it.

" if someone opens their gob and a load of irrational ignorant rubbish comes out, as it invariably does where leave voters are involved, "

no it doesn't. I am fairly sure that my 'leave' voter friends are at least as educated as you are , if not more.

Hate this knee jerk leftie rubbish, 'oh everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid'. Who is 'ignorant' here? because it sounds a lot like it might be you, tbh.

I know a few university educated leave voters. Doesn't mean I agree with them.

FWIW, the only overtly racist person I know voted Remain because she thought that having a high proportion of immigrants ftom Europe would reduce the number of 'Asians' (read: Muslims) who were allowed to live here. She's convinced that the UK is going to turn into a Muslim country within the next few decades because 'they all have hundreds of children and we just keep letting them in', and says the area where she grew up has been ruined by Pakistani gangs (it hasn't - I know this because I lived there too until last year!) Her parents are both black Caribbeans who came here on the Windrush... funny old world, huh.

It may have been OK at one time, but for many years now, the EU has only benefited the rich, elite, and powerful. The little (poor) people of which there are many (and that is why the brexit vote won!) don't see ANY benefit at all from being in the EU.

Really? No protection of worker rights? Consumer rights? Environmental policy? How strange.

I know there must be many intelligent, sensible, reasonable leave voters - other people on this thread keep telling me they are, after all. However my own experience of the leave voters I know really shocked me. Family members whom I had previously thought to be normal, rational people spouting about how they were voting leave to stop foreigners taking their jobs and school places etc., backed up by statistics about how many Indians and Pakistanis there are in the UK . It was really embarrassing. I would have definitely preferred for one of them to persuade me to vote leave instead of remain by using logic and reasoning, but I'm afraid comments about wanting to see fewer brown faces on the street weren't going to make that happen. I was genuinely shocked and hurt that people I thought I knew could be so stupid and unpleasant so yes, I do feel morally superior but I'm not at all pleased about it.

The Leave voters I know for sure are: two teachers particularly concerned about the strain on the NHS; an art critic/curator worried about ‘blunt instrument’ legislation from Brussels ignoring local needs, particularly those pertaining to the environment, and a small business owner who wants more economic independence for the UK.
Not racist or thick any of them.
Using the ‘Remain voters are simply cleverer’ argument is specious at best. In fact, I think it’s this very attitude which has repelled some Leavers who may otherwise have reconsidered.

The champagne socialists talking about how the ‘ill educated shouldn’t vote’ did it for me at the time.

For goodness sake does nobody see that in many rural places and many of the cities ghettos, this ‘better way of life’ peddled RE Europe was a complete false flag?

People then bleat on about the city of London and how we don’t make enough produce to feed ourselves because all our heavy industry and successful production lines have moved abroad, mostly to Germany.

Well I’m sorry but I don’t see the above as a promotion of Europe. We absolutely SHOULD make as much as we can, we absolutely should be producing as much food as we can and mostly, we should have bloody listened to the working class when they told us what freedom of movement was doing to their towns.

Then we wouldn’t be in this bloody mess