To think it's ok to sell your virginity?

[Ducksinarow1]

I've seen a couple of things recently about young women, usually 18-22ish selling their virginity for over £1m, sometimes even more. There was one on This Morning a while ago, saying she wanted to save for uni, start a business and help her parents buy their home. Everyone is always horrified by the idea, but AIBU to think it's worth it for an amount of money so massively life changing?

I lost my virginity to a boy who I was in a 'relationship' with and we liked each other, but it was awkward and painful and far from the ecstasy I'd imagined, and we broke up 2 months later. Most other people I have spoken to about their first time it didn't have that 'wow' moment either - mainly we just wanted to get it over with.

If you could fetch £1m, why wouldn't you?

It feels like there are 2 issues here - one being the general gut feeling that it's morally wrong, abhorrent, vile, disgusting for a woman to sell her body. The other is how we treat the powerless in society, including women and sex workers, but also anyone who is a victim of any kind of modern slavery (e.g. working in a minimum wage job where you have to work unpaid overtime if you can't meet their unreasonable targets). The second argument is the only one that holds weight in my opinion and the only reason I am uncomfortable with prostitution.

So let's say the second point wasn't an issue, would it be ok then? Wouldn't the perfect society be one in which a woman is able to sell her body if she wants to, without the fear of being murdered or abused? In the same way that removals men hire out their bodies to help you move heavy boxes?

Or is there still something wrong with it because it's sex?

one being the general gut feeling that it's morally wrong, abhorrent, vile, disgusting for a woman to sell her body.

I think this is wrong. The gut feeling is not that it's vile etc for a woman to sell her body. It's that it's morally wrong, abhorrent, vile, disgusting for someone to buy a body. It's a subtle but hugely important distinction.

And to the second point, in a "perfect" society, sex would not be a commodity. There would be no need. It would be something consenting adults were able to enjoy with whomsoever they pleased and not have it reduced to a transaction where one party holds the power.

I wouldn’t want that for my first experience of sex it’s likey to subvert it in a very ugly way

And to the second point, in a "perfect" society, sex would not be a commodity. There would be no need. It would be something consenting adults were able to enjoy with whomsoever they pleased and not have it reduced to a transaction where one party holds the power.

What if it's a physical need/desire but there is no power imbalance?

Men have higher sex drives on average, and traditionally want to have sex more than women do, so might still want to buy it.
The reason I like the comparison with removals men is that they are being paid because of what their bodies can do. However equal society is, and however much I train, I will never be able to lift a piano, so will always need to buy another (almost certainly male) human body to do it for me.

@cmlover I have enjoyed this debate and I'm pleased it hasn't just turned to name calling.

I was just thinking the same! It's usually the minority and I tend to ignore when it happens, but it is really nice when everyone focuses on the actual topic (particularly in a debate about morals, which can be inflammatory).

What if it's a physical need/desire but there is no power imbalance?

But there is. There is a systemic power imbalance.

Prosituation feels like the most literal expression of that power imbalance: I am man, I can choose to buy you, I can fuck you —over—

What if it's a physical need/desire but there is no power imbalance?

I definitely understand that, and about needs etc, but I feel in our "perfect society" that "hook up" apps would be more appropriate because the people agreeing to meet are on equal terms. They both want the same thing - sex. Theyre both getting the same thing and taking the risks for the same reason. When you bring money into the equation there is always a power imbalance because you will always have the customers who believe because they are paying, they have the right to more - a better service, to go off menu - than the seller is prepared to offer. And if you are selling your body because you need to pay the bills, that then puts you in a situation where you feel obligated to meet the customer's request but it goes beyond what you want to do.
I definitely get the concept of the equal transaction, but I don't think in practice it would work.

Of course men who buy women for sex don’t view them as human beings with rights. If they did they wouldn’t be contemplating the transaction in the first place. No one can impose themselves sexually on another person knowing they do not desire them but are only there for money if they regard that person as a human being with the same feelings as them.
That’s what men buy when they go to prostitutes - the opportunity to dehumanise and degrade women. As women who have got out of it will tell you.

you will always have the customers who believe because they are paying, they have the right to more - a better service, to go off menu - than the seller is prepared to offer.

This is why it needs to regulated. Because it’s underground, there is no recourse when people abuse the system. If it’s a job like any other, there would be no expectation to get more or go off-menu. When you order a service anywhere else, you get what you pay for and no more - unless the seller wants to give it (eg restaurants giving free drinks).

Hookup sites might work for some but if you’re less good looking or not in a populated area it might not always be possible.

That’s what men buy when they go to prostitutes - the opportunity to dehumanise and degrade women. As women who have got out of it will tell you.

I’m not sure that’s always (or even usually) the case. Men go to prostitures for a multitide if different reasons, including satisfying a sexual urge, to have a hug (surprisingly common), to role play a relationship.

I really doubt a man will actually pay a million pound for sex....is there any proof this has ever happened before?...if a man could afford to pay a million don't you think he would have his pick of girls to have sex with (probably freeloaders and gold diggers , ) and he could just go to a regular prostitute, or a club and meet a virgin and dazzle them with his cash...I really doubt that someone would pay that much...

Also if a virgin had sex and then the man refused to pay, how could you get your money from him, it's not like you could go to the police and say he owes me a million pound for having sex with him

Plus if a ma paid that much to have sex with a virgin, then regardless of if she feels pain or discomfort or wants to stop he will expect to get his Moneys worth so in a way it could end up easily turning into a rape scenario..

It's prostitution, I wouldn't do it

You need to read up inwhat women exiting sexual work tell us about their customers op. They’re not coming for a girlfriend substitute. You are very naive.

I'm not sure where you are looking, but I have been doing quite a bit of reading up today - 10 or 12 different sources probably - and found surprisingly few negative comments about clients, and also overwhelming support for legalisation, amongst both current and past sex workers. There are also several AMA threads on this site, only one of which mentions abuse, and that was to say there was only one physically violent customer in the 4 years she was in the industry...

I'm definitely not saying it doesn't happen - it clearly does, and too much so. But I think it's a stretch to say that the only reason men pay for sex is to dominate and exert control over a woman - the experiences I've read about just don't support the view that it's the norm.

Then your reading material is too narrow. Try reading up on Holbeck Red Light Zone, and find out what its like to be a poor disabled women living nearby.

It's her body why not If that's what she wants to do then do it! I would of done it for a 1million rather an ex abusive partner.

She's started up her life forever pretty much.

An (admittedly brief) search on Holbeck revealed

• lots of references to a BBC documentary which I haven't watched (but will if I can find it)
• Articles/comments by sex workers saying that the BBC documentary is biased and focuses on tired stereotypes of violent men and vulnerable drug addicts and that that's not the norm
• News articles reporting that the scheme has increased prosecutions and convictions and made women feel safer
• articles reporting that the scheme had been considered successful and would be repeated elsewhere

So still mixed, but still mainly in favour...

I wish I could have sold mine. I just wanted the whole thing over with, I didn't want to be a virgin and didn't want losing my virginity to be a thing. I would have been glad to have lost it some sort of transnational arrangement, that's that done, you shake hands and say goodbye. I think it's the only time I could imagine myself selling (or buying) a sexual service would be to get rid of my virginity.

Transaction!

TBH my mum is so obsessively rule abiding that she would not agree to lending the cot without asking the owner of the villa either. I do think it's unreasonable not ask, at least.

oops, ignore that, wrong thread!

Tbh I think those comments from the op prove to my satisfaction this thread isn’t in good faith and there is an agenda here. There’s no way you can start looking into this in a spirit of genuine enquiry without running into a barrel load of shit. No point engaging.

Are these men idiots? You give the woman £1m, you have sex with her, you take her word for it she has never had sex before. Okay

But yes, it's vile, in answer to your question.

If the woman wants to do this and can somehow guarantee her safety, then I have no issue with it at all. I just chose a random guy to lose my virginity with when I was 15 because I wanted to ‘get it done’. This was normal in my peer group and I didn’t regret it. I had a laugh about it with my mates the next day and discussed whether it hurt etc. I didn’t fancy him really or know him and it didn’t scar me whatsoever. I have been in casual and serious relationships since then but just don’t see sex as a huge deal or particularly sacred in any way. I don’t think I would have thought about making money from it when I was young and being supported by my parents, but if some foolish man offered to pay me even a quarter of a million pounds now to sleep with him now, I wouldn’t hesitate. 20 minutes out of my life in return for a life changing some of money would be a no brainer for me!

So let's say the second point wasn't an issue, would it be ok then? Wouldn't the perfect society be one in which a woman is able to sell her body if she wants to, without the fear of being murdered or abused? In the same way that removals men hire out their bodies to help you move heavy boxes?

But we don't live in a perfect society.