Devastated - should we move or AIBU?

[MisstoMrs]

I have a 4 year old dog. My neighbours have just got a new puppy. Since the new puppy arrived my dog has been able to see it through the fence and has been barking a lot. I am having someone round to replace the fence today so it is no longer semi-seethrough. I did this when we moved in 5 years ago with the rest of the fence as for some reason my dog took to barking at that side of the garden. He had never barked at neighbours before but they have a cat so that may have been a factor. Prior to the new puppy he did occasionally bark at them so we only let him in the garden when we are home (I work from home, as does my neighbour). This means we can supervise the dog and call him in if he barks. In total, on a bad day, he would bark for up 5 mins in total, between 8am and 10pm. We don’t let him out beyond those times. However, as I said, the new puppy has meant he is barking more than that at the moment and that definitely needs addressing.

Yesterday my neighbour came round to see me. She told me that the barking has been so bad since we moved in they are taking about moving, that we have ruined the quiet street, that all the neighbours agree that our dog is a problem, that he is teaching their 12 week old puppy to bark and that they are both really down about our dog barking because he has made them prisoners in their own home and they no longer feel able to use their garden.

I obviously don’t want them to feel any of those things but I don’t know what to do. I feel devastated that instead of talking to us they have spoken to our neighbours and left it to the point where I feel nothing we do will be enough. I don’t accept that our dog is teaching theirs to bark; it is just of an age where they learn but clearly they are blaming our dog and that is what they will believe is happening. I also don’t feel that, new puppy aside, the noise is excessive. We never leave him to bark. I can’t always race outside if he does bark because I have a baby, but he’s never there for more than one to two minutes, and as I said he is never outside when we are not there. We’re going to start recording when he barks and for how long to make sure we’re not being blind to it and ive asked them to tell me if there is a day when they think it is unacceptable.

I’m devastated and thinking of moving. I feel sick every time my dog or DD make a noise outside. AIBU?

Posting on AIBU as I want honest opinions from non dog owners but would also welcome any advice. Sorry it’s so long but didn’t want to drop feed.

Thank you.

Have you tried standing in between the fence and your dog when it barks? Don't say anything to your dog, just face your dog with the fence behind you. I got this from Cesar Millan, it works every time for us, our dog stops barking and walks away from the fence! It's something to do with you claiming the space. Worth a try.

Hi Op, I’m sure you are doing all you can and you sound like a lovely caring person. I genuinely hope you get it sorted. We had neighbours who just didn’t care and you do. It’s a touchy subject for me that’s all.

Oh, and as someone who's recently done a dog behaviour course, I echo the others saying no to shock/spray collars. You might get some short term results (probably because it will scare your dog) but it wont work in the long run. Avoid any trainer who starts suggesting any punishment based training - you'll end up with more problems. And it doesn't sound like your dog has any real behavioural issues anyway.

Thanks @Tweez and everyone for all your advice and support. I know mumsnet can be a tough crowd, especially AIBU, which I guess is why I posted here because I wanted honesty. The advice and feedback I have had, good and bad, and the support, has been amazing. Thank you

I’m absolutely bemused by this thread. Bear with me. I live in a close of eight houses. None of my neighbours is under sixty, and one is in his nineties. Although I’m in my 30s, I’ve actually lived here the longest - came here in ‘81 with my mum and dad when I was a few months old, and now mum and I live here with my children (my dad died a few years back). I have from time to time worried about my children being noisy, although I remind myself that this is not a retirement community, after all, and my children really are pretty good. The baby cries more than I ever remember the boys doing, although two neighbours independently and unprompted told me they never hear her, and assumed she was at her dad’s quite a lot (hollow laugh, but that’s not for here . . . ). I absolutely hate the house (ugly 70s semi) but would struggle to leave because the children have it so good here, and while my neighbours are occasional CF re: parking and bonfires, there’s no loud music, no late-night BBQs, so endless DIY projects. Half the neighbours have dogs. I do not like dogs. At all. I don’t like people telling me how much better dogs are than children, because we’ve all been children, but I’m fairly sure I’ve never been a Jack Russell. I don’t like people telling me my son has a ‘phobia’ about dogs (knocked over by an Irish Wolfhound aged 3) because a phobia is an irrational fear and it’s not irrational to be frightened of something which can kill you. Fear of cotton wool balls - weird. Fear of something which could tear out your jugular - reasonable. Anyway. Elderly black lab is rather nice, but the two yappy things are grotesque, and the short-haired thing most selfish neighbour has is vile and stinks to high heaven (I know this because he took it off the lead in the orchards nearby, and I found it running in the road by the shop, where it was nearly killed. Nine months pregnant, I had to carry the (heavy) fucker down the road, and when I approached the house he came out and said “He doesn’t really like having his tummy touched” which I thought was quite a curious way of saying “Thank you so much for rescuing my malodorous and irritable dog from certain death and carrying him home following a spot of breathtaking irresponsibility on my part”. But my point is - these dogs bark. A lot. For ten-fifteen minutes, some nights. Not every night. Not all year around. Not completely unchecked. Now - I have been known to shout out of the window once in a blue moon, but I’ve never ‘complained’ and I’m certainly not ‘psychologically disturbed’ by the idea that I can’t rest because I never know when the next noise is coming. That’s insane. It’s annoying, but not unliveable with. Dogs bark - I know this. They’re companions for these people. They love them. I’m ok with it. You seem like a decent sort, OP, and you’re driving yourself bankers trying to accommodate these neurotic doilies. It’s madness to say they’ll have to move. I do not think this constitutes a nuisance, especially if your house is detached. It’s part of what the courts essentially call ‘the give and take of daily life’. Tell them to pull themselves together, and keep working to minimize the barking in the knowledge that you might not eradicate it.

Few typos there. Got a bit carried away.

I think you ndn is unhinged! I think she's in good company on here then. I am scrolling through thinking oh that's a stupid suggestion let me highlight that and answer it and then there SO MANY stupid suggestions I think where would you start! Basically your NDN wants trump yours. If you didn't have a dog, she'd be objecting to your kids, and people on here would be saying poor woman must be soooo stressed, you have screaming kids etc.

Its HAS to be that way for MN, it cannot be that a dog is simply going woof and the woman next door likes messing with your head .

Have you thought about doing two smaller walks (2x30mins or even 3x20 mins) so the dog isn't demanding to go out in the garden. If you do that, he can be out only when you are there too and you will be able to instantly deal with the first bark. I think it is quite good for a child to do that sort of regular walk as well, even if it feels a bit of a pain at first. Our dog was a rescue and trained by the foster owner not to use the garden as a toilet, he would get 5 minute morning wee walk, 20 minutes mid morning, 30-40 minutes mid afternoon and 5 minute late night wee walk.

I'd not let him out unaccompanied until the fence is fixed, that's the least you can do. I would also not think about moving, every adult has to deal with these situations sometimes, running away is expensive and pointless (espeically if you are taking the barky dog with you to the next house anyway). It'll be nice in the longer term to have a dog owner next door, you might be able to help each other with the odd walk or bit of dog sitting.

It’s easy to see the dog owners in some of these posts.

I think the neighbours are being ridiculous and I don't own a dog. I do have a cat that can't even meow properly though. 😂

Have you tried standing in between the fence and your dog when it barks? Don't say anything to your dog, just face your dog with the fence behind you. I got this from Cesar Millan, it works every time for us, our dog stops barking and walks away from the fence! It's something to do with you claiming the space. Worth a try.

Cesar Millan is considered to be a pariah in the dog training world, and for good reason.

As far as I can tell (I'm not a qualified dog trainer), this would be one of the less harmful things he has come up with (compared to, say, alpha rolls) but not everything in dog training is worth a try.

If you want an alternative TV dog trainer, Victoria Stilwell is far, far better.

I'm sorry but I've lived next door to bad dog owners and you are not it. We had 2 large Staffies ripping holes in our garden fence trying to attack our spaniel, and or me if I dared to use our back garden. Our ds therefore could not go out there. So yes, we moved. However, Dogs bark, it's a pain in the arse at times, but that's just the way it is. So long as you're not leaving your pooch out there to do as he pleases for as long as he pleases you're doing fine.

I’ve had this problem. Next door but one neighbour. Except she didn’t allow me courtesy of talking to me about it, she went straight to Environmental Health. Gawd knows what she told the woman about me, but she treated me as if I was a completely feckless dog owner! She suggested I took my pup to dog training classes - er, done that!

Yes, he was barking at cats sitting on the 6 ft fence and taunting him, not to mention the squirrel in the fir tree at the end of the garden! But I called him in every time within a few minutes, except sometimes I didn’t hear him for a while,whilst watching tv in the sitting room - which begs the question,how did she hear him?

He still barks occasionally, but comes in immediately when I call.

OP you really have my sympathy!

Oh, and she is a professional complainer! She left me an anonymous letter telling me to cut my hedge. Always complaining to the council about my next door neighbour (council tenants)

If you do that, he can be out only when you are there too and you will be able to instantly deal with the first bark. if you RTFT splash you will see that even one bark is not acceptable to some posters. They call it "incessant".

Our old neighbours (who admittedly were completely crazy!) let their dog bark for hours at a time, no exaggeration. 5 minutes sounds fine and we are a family who have a low tolerance for dogs barking! Don’t worry about it. If it had upset your other neighbours as much as next door have said, surely they would have mentioned it?

Dog lover & owner here ... I would buy a spray bottle, fill it with water and use a gentle spritz of this on your dog every time he goes near that fence & barks.
I'll probably get flamed by the pearl clutches but a little bit of water will be harmless and DEFINATELY less hassle than having to record the dog. The main thing is for your dog and neighbours dog to get used to living in relative harmony next door to each other. The alternative probably involves reports to the council about excessive barking, fall outs with neighbours, one of you having to move etc

Thanks @taracave Sadly I think my neighbours are there already which is what is so difficult. To not say anything for years and then go straight to us making them feel they have to move / prisoners in their own home / ruining their garden / going on holiday to get away from us / teaching their puppy to bark, is incredibly difficult because I feel nothing we do will be enough. We’re up to 10 individual woofs now, on two occasions. The most recent was for water in his bowl outside. It is so unbelievably stressful.

MisstoMrs I am going to be forthright, but my intentions are kind I promise.

This is bothering you way too much. There really is no issue with your dog barking - absolutely zero problem. As you have documented yourself over the past couple of days, his barking is minimal. You have mentioned a couple of times that you are now hyper stressed over this and exceedingly anxious; walking on eggshells whilst your neighbours next door merrily carry on with their lives with a noisy social gathering / party (yesterday was it?).

Are you not terribly good at being assertive? Have your neighbours possibly picked up on this? ...because frankly in your situation if the neighbours raised it with me again I would be very forthright raising many of the points made in this thread: the criteria of 20 minutes or over to qualify as noise nuisance, the neighbours own noise from parties and such like, your monitoring and findings of completely minimal barking etc. You need to close this down. If this sort of interaction is outside your comfort zone would you dh/dp have a word with them?

No other actions or change of behaviour on your part are needed - none at all.

@hmcAsWas thank you for your post. I think you are right. Since my DD was born I have struggled with anxiety for a number of reasons I won’t bore you with. For whatever reason this has really triggered it, probably because my home and my family are my safe space. I am anxious at the moment about seeing them again / further complaints etc. I am sure once I have got the courage up to go and speak to them (I need to about the fence) I will feel better. Either because they will unreasonable - which will enable me to play less attention to them - or because they will acknowledge that we are working hard on it and it is better. Sadly, in either case, the relationship is dmanaged now to the point where I don’t trust them and and will continue not to do so.

I do appreciate your message. I have been googling ways to deal with anxiety. Probably not an ideal source but all there is on a Sunday afternoon.

@LeahJack Unreasonable. Op has a baby. If she is changing a nappy what is she supposed to do, leave the baby on changing table? Or if cooking something on the hob, just walk away leaving a hot pan for the toddler to get? Just to save ten extra seconds of barking?! Get a grip! Priorities?!?!?!

MisstoMrs - anxiety can be difficult to live with

hmc I wish you'd come on the thread 300+ posts ago. Its what I was trying to say very clumsily, this is a non-issue and the neighbours are being arses for making the OP very anxious in her own home - I know how that feels.

Tweez, you can tell the dog haters on this thread. On the whole they are complete idiots

Op, 6 or even 10 barks is nothing. It is not unreasonable despite what your loony neighbour and some of the posters on here say.

I know it is difficult as I too suffer from anxiety but you need to try and ignore your neighbour and just concentrate on your dog.

I was really worried when we first moved and our dogs were barking but it was far from non stop and they have got much much better. I am a considerate neighbour but plenty of my neighbours are not so if my dogs bark occasionally so be it.

some of the hysterical responses on here are so typical of this sort of thread on Mumsnet.
“The dog should never be left unsupervised in the garden” Yeah, right.
“The dog should be brought in the second he barks.” Yeah right.
“The dog shouldn’t bark for more than five minutes, ever”. Yeah right.