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Original poster

Are these rules for my lodger too harsh?

512 replies

southatsea · 12/07/2018 07:34

I have a lodger but he has complained that my rules are too strict. So looking to canvas opinion on them!

No loud music or loud TV after 10pm
No smoking
Has to ask my permission before having friends to stay
Use of the bathroom, kitchen and living room but can't use the bathroom between 0645 and 0700 (when I need it to get ready for work)
Plates cutlery etc to be brought downstairs on the day they are used eg no hoarding in bedrooms.

Do these sound too harsh? His room is well furnished with a sofa, double bed, tv etc and I charge below market rent.

OP posts:
Lweji · 14/07/2018 17:41

that quote was also from a post replying to a pp who seemed to ignore that the owner also lived in the house.

The rules are mostly about respect for those also living in the house, particularly considering that they own it. And basic property maintenance to avoid things like rodents and cockroaches. (not leaving dirty dishes and cuttlery in the room).

Boulty · 14/07/2018 17:54

How old is your lodger and how old are you?

Some of the rules are quite patronising.... I am assuming the lodger is an adult.

Boulty · 14/07/2018 17:54

PS Do you have a partner? I imagine you to be single

Pengggwn · 14/07/2018 18:02

The rules are mostly about respect for those also living in the house, particularly considering that they own it.

But that is the very point. I own my house. Yes, I owe the bank a lot of money, but the house is mine. Nobody gets to use my toilet without I say so, as it were. That is my prerogative. But if I start to accept rent from another adult, it becomes their home, and to try to uphold all of my prerogatives as if I still lived alone isn't reasonable. Specifying when someone can have a piss in their own home isn't reasonable.

Lweji · 14/07/2018 18:36

Specifying when someone can have a piss in their own home isn't reasonable.

I agree. But then that's not what the OP has done. She's just making sure she can get to work on time.

Amethystical · 14/07/2018 18:41

"Specifying when someone can have a piss" makes it sound like there's a timetable for the day. There really isn't.

Amethystical · 14/07/2018 18:44

Obviously, you can't choose when to use a toilet in any shared house and it can be useful to have a timetable in the morning. This should be agreed between the people who live in the house. I see no reason why the landlady would have priority.

If people need to use the bathroom at around the same time to get to work, someone is going to to get that time slot and someone isn't. Why should the tenant take priority over their resident landlady?

Pengggwn · 14/07/2018 18:47

Amethystical

Because first come, first served and the early bird catches the worm. Why should the tenant have to be late, if their preference is to be early?

Amethystical · 14/07/2018 18:48

There is no reason the lodger should have to wait for the toilet

Of course there is. The same reason anybody else living anywhere has to wait for the toilet: somebody else is already using it.

OP says the lodger takes a very long time in the bathroom in the morning, up to an hour - this would make her late for work. On the other hand, she only uses it for 15 mins. So should OP be waiting for up to an hour to get ready for work, or should lodger wait 15 mins? I think the latter.

Pengggwn · 14/07/2018 18:48

Lweji

It is exactly what she has done. There is a 15 minute slot where the tenant cannot use the bathroom. That means there is a 23 hour and 45 minute slot where, assuming the OP isn't on the toilet or having a bath/shower, he can. That is specifying. She has given him times when he can use the bathroom, and times when he can't.

Amethystical · 14/07/2018 18:51

Because first come, first served and the early bird catches the worm. Why should the tenant have to be late, if their preference is to be early?

If he likes to be up do early, why doesn't he get up earlier to use the bathroom before OP if he cannot wait until 7am? Hmm

If I were a tenant with a resident landlady, then yes I would think the landlord should have priority over me. I am living in their home, I might be paying them rent, but it's not mine - they can kick me out.

Amethystical · 14/07/2018 18:53

And 23 hours and 45 mins is plenty time. My grandfather gets ready for work in the bathroom same time every working day - only in there for around 10 mins for a quick rinse etc. I would never dream of moving back in and saying "Well, I pay rent now, so you have to change your routine". No, I should change MINE.

RaininSummer · 14/07/2018 19:00

People do have some odd ideas. I can only hope they are never lodgers themselves.

slithytove · 14/07/2018 19:01

But the lodger clearly doesn’t have this routine. Op has had to implement it because he was being selfish

Teacher22 · 14/07/2018 20:52

Your rules are totally reasonable. The man is a lodger and, if he wants to smoke and leave the place filthy, he has the option of paying a lot more for a flat. He cannot have it both ways. Ignore anyone who says otherwise as they are probably take-the-mickey merchants too.

twofingerstoEverything · 14/07/2018 21:06

PS Do you have a partner? I imagine you to be single

Hmm Biscuit Hmm

yearofthewoman · 14/07/2018 23:33

I completely disagree. You have as much right as anyone else to feel at home. So many people on this thread seem to think lodgers are some kind of inferior beings.

Err, no. No one thinks lodger are inferior beings. The law is very clear on this though - lodgers have few rights compared to tenants. This is not the same thing as a house share.

Lodgers can be evicted very easily, for example, the landlord must only give reasonable notice.

If you become a lodger, you don't have the right to exclude your landlord from the room you're renting. The landlord does not need to ask your permission to enter your room. (although in practice, most people are polite enough to!) This also means, as a lodger, you won't be able to put a lock on the door to your room to keep them out.

yearofthewoman · 14/07/2018 23:35

Why should the tenant have to be late, if their preference is to be early?

Because if they don't, then they're liable to lose their home as it's not convenient for the OP to have them make her late all the time.

Either they fit in to the rules of the house or they bugger off and find somewhere better suited to them. Simple.

crunchymint · 15/07/2018 01:23

Although the law is clear, it is immoral to take someones money and make them feel like where they live is not their home.
I lived as a lodger once, and never again.

BitOfFun · 15/07/2018 01:47

I actually agree that the OP is not being unreasonable, but I had to chortle at @SofiaAmes having a hundred lodgers in the past 25 years making her an authority on what's appropriate...so, one every three months on average? Hardly a ringing endorsement, is it?

ArcheryAnnie · 15/07/2018 02:14

I've been a lodger, and I think your rules are perfectly reasonable, OP.

If he wants to play loud music or watch TV after 10 pm he can get headphones like any other sensible person who lives in shared space.

SofiaAmes · 15/07/2018 02:25

@BitOfFun it depends on what your object is. You may measure success by the length of time a lodger stays in your home. In my case, I do not rent to long term lodgers, which works for me. I live in Los Angeles and only rent to people in town for limited term movie/tv/etc. engagements because they put less strain on the household than a long term lodger (mostly because they eat on set and don't use my kitchen...I cook a lot). My intention in stating the number of lodgers was to demonstrate that there are plenty of people who are happy to be lodgers in a house with rules that suit the owner.
As it happens, I also have a guest house on my property with proper tenants and that's a whole different kettle of fish. I prefer long term renters in the guest house and since they are tenants they can do what they please inside their own home. Although, I still have a few rules like no drugs and no wild parties (because I have children and neighbors). Most of my guest house tenants remained several years, the last tenants stayed for 13 years (and still come back to use my pool). The current tenant was my lodger 10 years ago and is in a different place in her life and wanted more privacy etc.

@crunchymint I beg to differ. There is nothing immoral about renting a room to a lodger and not letting them feel like it's not their home. It isn't. It's my home and they are just a short term visitor/renter, along with the advantages that come with that. If the heating breaks, I have to fix it. And every week when the garbage needs to be put out on the street, I don't expect them to do it. I am solely responsible for the pool and the garden and cleaning the house. On the other hand, if it were "their home" too, they would have to share those responsibilities.That's the difference between a lodger and a tenant (or flatmate).

Pengggwn · 15/07/2018 05:43

Either they fit in to the rules of the house or they bugger off and find somewhere better suited to them. Simple

Well, quite. That is exactly what I said I would do.

Pengggwn · 15/07/2018 05:45

Amethystical

I'm not debating whether the OP has the right to kick the tenant out. I know she does. I am saying she wouldn't need to kick me out because I would be leaving as soon as she came up with the exclusionary bathroom rule.

SofiaAmes · 15/07/2018 06:51

I think some posters are confused as to what a lodger is.

Dictionary definition is:

a person who occupies a rented room in another's house; specifically : a person who by agreement with the owner of a house acquires no property, interest, or possession therein but only the right to occupy a designated room or area that remains in the owner's legal possession

And from Citizens Advice:

If you rent a room in your landlord’s home and share some accommodation with them, then you may be what's commonly known as a lodger. You may have your own room, usually a bedroom, but you don't have exclusive use of that room. This means that your landlord can enter the room without your permission.

And from Gov.uk describing the difference between a lodger and a tenant:
Your lodger is an excluded occupier
Your lodger is likely to be an excluded occupier if:
--they live in your home
--you or a member of your family share a kitchen, bathroom or living room with them
In this case, you only have to give them reasonable notice to end the letting - and you won’t have to go to court to evict them.

Your lodger has basic protection
Your lodger is likely to be an occupier with basic protection if:
--they live in your home
--they don’t share any living space with you or your family
If your lodger won’t leave when you ask them, you’ll need to get a court order to evict them.

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