To wonder what people mean when they say "Oh, I wish they'd just get ON with Brexit!"

[BertrandRussell]

Because I have no idea how they would do that.

FGS Prepping!

I suppose that is a small price to pay for being outside the EU. LOL.

Hope everyone has their drugs of choice sorted, and everything else.

OK this may be over the top thinking, but if some are thinking it, it must be true.

Such an unnecessary toll on people who may be worriers, and for what may I ask?

MN has finally woken up to the impending cluster fuck. Nobody (aside from ardent remainers - on the EU referendum board) seemed to give a damn.

When a fire starts in your house do you generally wait for every room to be set alight before phoning the fire brigade or do you think it best to call ASAP?

Because it's uncomfortable.

I expect lots of people just want it to go away and getting on with it would mean that as some point it would or it would become the new normal.

The problem is , this is going to go on for decades. We may never well recover.

The only way probably is EEA (Norway). The issue with this is both those that voted remain (which I am one) and those that voted leave will be unhappy. And bizarrely that seems fair.

That would then us time for much needed reform to the political landscape and politics in general.

We could then have grown up conversations about the future of the UK.

No referendums again ever. We should ban them for very good reasons, just like Germany.

*give us time

When a fire starts in your house do you generally wait for every room to be set alight before phoning the fire brigade or do you think it best to call ASAP?

No, you explain to your terrified family that it’s a good fire because you no longer have to dislike the artexed ceiling, and that it would be hysterical scaremongering to evacuate, when a really loving family should savour the smell of superheated smoke in their lungs.

To answer the op and forget the rights and wrongs of it, what I think we will end up with will be a deal similar to Turkey for goods to keep the borders open in Ireland and Gibraltar and some kind of British citizen/non British citizen checkpoint off the ferries similar to airports.

A fudge on Services where we will agree not to be a tax haven, pay an annual extortionate fee and continue to be allowed to be involved in the banking sector.

That's what I hope anyway.

keyboardkate

Completely different - the chequers proposals are trying to stay in the EU for goods and not controlling borders.The proposals also don't really allow us to increase tariffs if we need to, as they are not reciprocal - goods just pass from the EU too the UK like a backdoor. i.e. we couldn't protect a strategic industry like steel. There is no point to the Chequers proposals.

The choice to use Article 50 in the first place was a choice that did not have to be used, as it put the EU more in control of timing. One advantage it did have was made it very clear there was no international ongoing obligations - such as payments.

The UK could not leave on the date of A50 if it chose to use A50. As indicated above, the 2 years from A50 should have been used to prepare agencies etc.

There did not have to be any business 'uncertainty',. They should just have assumed and been told to prepare to sell to the EU as per any other non-EU country. It isn't really uncertainty at all, it's not respecting the fact the country chose to increase trade and travel friction but take back complete control of what happens within the UK. This was all discussed before the vote.

It takes a bit of time to put back in place the agencies we used to have and employ the people who would work for them. So around a year or so would have been needed if a simple approach adopted.

There did not have to be any business 'uncertainty',. They should just have assumed and been told to prepare to sell to the EU as per any other non-EU country. It isn't really uncertainty at all

So your certainty is to expect the worst?

I can't believe any business owner - or any worker - voted for Brexit on such a god awful preposition.

Blink,

Thanks for your reply.

I just think at this stage it is Chequers or Crash out TBH.

The fact of the matter is that if UK get a "deal" outside the four freedoms in order to have free trade within the EU, maybe other EU countries might want the same.

UK has to be very careful here. The proposals will either be tweaked or rejected. And I for one do not blame the EU for this. They cannot treat a leaving country with any advantages over those staying (not paying into the pot for example). That is just common sense.

It's because they didn't understand it in the first place.

@Blink66

You sound knowledgeable- what's the issue with medicines? I take quite a few so worried about it. Is it that we'd have to pay more? I can't imagine the EU will refuse to export?

I've been worrying about it since the vote but I admit I don't post much on the subject.

I have a business importing European yarns and wools. I'm genuinely shocked that the government haven't given us anything of substance yet on how this is all going to work. Do I stockpile, take out a loan and buy up stock so I have enough to keep us going until the clusterfuck sorts itself (if it ever does??! I'm imagining huge customs charges etc), and if I do that could I potentially have no customers post brexit because people are more concerned with stockpiling essentials than knitting?

Feel a bit lost with it all to be honest, and like the gov have completely deserted us.

Supply of cancer drugs may break down.

I remember so many mn posters clamouring to leave, leave now- without a deal.

I hope two years later they realise what they’ve done.

If I had the vote I would vote Remain (non-EU migrant).

When I say "I wish they'd get on with it", I mean that I dislike the uncertainty and that there was more information at least on what is being proposed by the UK and EU sides. There have been a few things put out on the government website - the UK's proposed plans for transitioning EU migrants onto a similar one to the non-EU currently in place as an example - but a lot of important things still have practically nothing available. As Hamiltoes said, feeling a bit lost with it all. It feels like the no one was expecting this result so no even proposed plans were worked out by the government which really should have been in place before any vote.

Bombardier25966

Dramatics like you've posted are the core of the issue. Clearly most people did vote for that - business views were taken into account as part of the original vote; same as anyone else. Only 4% of business actually does any international exports.

As indicated, when you import so much more than export, tariffs aren't really an issue.

keyboardkate

Unfortunately 'crash out' is really just proper leaving without our own preparation. We could start preparing now, but I agree with you that because we didn't prepare for the main event that there would now be increased chaos - primarily because the EU wouldn't show any pragmatism, because they are annoyed we don't want to pay their bills and remain uncompetitive, which is really what the EU is about (following the French model).

Redundancy1

Medicines are currently regulated by a shared agency. All the staff were in the UK and as we were a net contributor, it would not have cost us anything to just keep all the staff as the new UK agency. In fact if we had wanted to, we could simply have just used any drugs authorised by the EU without paying for the medicines to be checked ourselves - it would be our choice, and no more risky than present.

It would be valuable to cooperate on these things, but we don't have to have the same rules. It helps, because the same products can be sold everywhere, but if we want something to happen for a reason we currently cannot.

The UK is very good at big pharma. We would have no problem with medicines, and could import easily from outside the EU.

The UK could also choose outside the EU whether to remove patents from medicines that were seen as too expensive. It would be unlikely as we have a strong industry to protect, but that would be our choice in the future.

The only reason prices would increase is because of double testing. It's our choice whether to do that or we could just free-load off the EU list as well. It should be clear that many developing countries get exactly the same grade of medicine as the EU, but do not individually test them - but if they wanted a different standard they could.

Nobody is suggesting the UK and EU could not cooperate, but with EU style cooperation there is always unnecessary obligations such as if you want to test medicines together, then you must only ever use medicines we have all agreed. A better approach would be, we all join to pay together, and then choose what each country wants to do - its like a non-uniform day, it most cases people do the same and wear jeans.

DN4GeekinDerby

If you followed the Greek and other crisis you will know that the EU never really negotiate and only ever kick the can down the road. There never was going to be any real discussion until the last few months, and it will go to the wire.

The only way to have stated what was going to happen was to not negotiate at all and set our own timing. Unfortunately the prime minister is really a remainer, so by wanting something it was inevitable that nothing would be agreed until a bad deal at the end.

We've had queues of lorries, petrol shortages etc. whilst within the EU. Remember it is up top the UK if it places controls/tarrifs on imports - so that's untie rely within our control. Only a small number of com ponies (4%) export, and most significant ones (e.g. FTSE250) already export worldwide.

The UK has a vast services industry. The current single market does not cover services - but we manage to insure and entertain the world.

For those who care, England one up against Croatia.

As you were...... Let the discussion continue!

To be quite frank I am sick to the back teeth of being called an idiot over Brexit largely by ill-informed idealists. Some of us spent months reading listening and discussing agonising about outcomes before coming to an INFORMED decision. Right, next, of course, it is going to take a monumental time. What people are impatient about is the infighting, indecision, leaking all your negotiating stance to the EU who are longing to be the bully boy and "punish" the Uk for the audacity. Businesses, in particular, will cope with whatever the outcomes for the most part, but they do need to know what it is they are dealing with. The split in the Conservative party is a gift to the Brussels bullies who will clearly take all our concessions and more besides and give not an inch. We have an unholy mess with an insufficient strength of leadership to get us the best deal. By the way, I am not stupid, I am not racist, I am not anti-Europe (just the EU bureaucracy) . There is an impatience, not at the time spent, but the lack of any progress at all, before we even start. I have spent two years listening to ludicrous emotive knee-jerk responses. Having been there at the time, and voted in, I can tell you it was nothing to do with European Unity and preventing a third world war, but EVERYTHING to do with UK finances at the time. We were in a mess. If everyone would stop taking the moral high ground, this current mess wants addressing, and not by a remain vote. I appreciate others opinion and for one learn a lot from listening to the vies of my adult children. I don't think some of our remainers are remotely open-minded. Did any of you agonise or teeter at the vote? or did you think it was a no-brainer. Since the referendum I have become more convinced we need to get out. We need to stop whinging and be decisive. any skilled negotiators out there? Is this a good way of getting a deal?

They are waiting for us to pick up the island and move it somewhere better. That way we've officially taken our country back

Yes I did agonize and look at everything. I even had doubt.
What about you confused?

And how do you do this without many many people being much worse off?

What do you expect when you allow millions of ill-informed people who read the Sun, Star & Mail make a hugely important decision on a vastly complex issue about which they know absolutely nothing and understand even less.

The 2016 was a massive abdication of responsibility by the political class.

@Confusedbeetle

You are doing yourself no favours by referring to the EU as "bullies"

In fact I think the UK has taken over that epithet.

Why would the EU allow the UK to override them. UK is leaving.. Get on with it!

But of course there has to be compromise in negotiations, always.

The UK will not ever get an agreement that is better than existing EU members though. Why should they?

@Blink66 thank you.

First past the post electoral system has led us to this pass.

There is no point in listening to dissenting voices/parties anymore because they will never be in Parliament will they? So it's ying and yang forever more.

If anyone is talking about democracy surely the electoral system needs a bit of a tweak so that all voices are represented, as in a single transferable vote/proportional representation system. But no, not ever.

That is a big democratic failing IMV only of course!

We need to get rid of first past the post as it is part of the dynamic that leads to lobbying and explotation by people like Murdoch.