To say she can’t become a vegan yet

[funnyfairy360]

So my 10yr old DD has announced that she does not believe it is Ok to use animal products any more and from now on will not be eating/wearing/using anything made from animals or produced by animals. She does not even want to be ‘forced’ to sit on our leather couch. Now don’t get me wrong I’m all for her finding her own way in life but this is not just becoming vegetarian or going goth, becoming vegan is life changing and to be honest too inconvenient and expensive for me to make happen for her right now. She said she has the right to choose I say yes when she can pay for the products and cook the food herself .....she wants vegan friendly washing up liquid/shampoo/ soap/ clothes/this list could go on and on. None of the rest of us have any desire to go vegan.

@pennycarbonara Re the mealplan for vegans.. I know they exist However if someone wants to be vegan to me they have to fully understand what that entails to ensure they are getting the nutrients they need. Hence yes I expect dd to dig further than the first google page.. She has chosen not do so yet.. The day she has and can explain to me how and why this is needed and what she gets out of it. I will support her 100%.. However if she is not willing to put in that effort then I am not doing it for her.

I suspect Op feels similarly.

Kiwi fruits have loads of omega 3

It is not automatically more expensive ok and imho you should definitely listen to her and allow her to eat a plant based diet.If you are concerned about her diet read up on the vegan recipes,they are not expensive although I get you are not wanting to cook two different meals a day.it is easier than you think to compromise.i.e. But vegan sausages and your normal ones and serve with vegetables.Alpro do vegan yoghurt ice cream and there are many milk substitutes.
As a pm said,own brand toiletries are vegan and cheap.all also skin care products are now vegan.
ASTONISH cleaning products are not tested on animals.
I hope this is of some help

32 years ago, I was 10 and having the exact same conversation with my mother. I will always be grateful to her for understanding that, even if I was only young, my opinions were heartfelt and mattered to me. She didn’t encourage it but she did make allowances. She taught me some very valuable lessons through all of that. I am now more or less vegan and only use cruelty-free products. I have a husband and four children, who, until recently, were all omnivores. DS8 has been cutting out meat since the kids all brought one of our ex-batt hens to sit with us. They were stroking her neck and she closed her eyes and made happy little noises. It was like a eureka moment for him and that was that. I’ve never preached to them or tried to persuade them one way or the other. If they ask questions (driving past chicken lorries for example) I answer age-appropriately. As long as he eats healthily, it is up to him to decide on his beliefs. I will guide him but I want my children to live by their convictions and to be compassionate. So, for us that is 100% cruelty-free products and, when DH buys meat, it’s high-welfare. It does not need to be expensive at all. I’d be very proud you’re raising a child who thinks for herself. Show her you’ve got her back.

You can be a healthy vegan cheaply, cheaper than meat eating. Those fake meat replacements aren’t needed at all.
Here’s a palm free spread, just out this month:
cannyfood.co.uk/vegan-recipes/naturli-vegan-butter-review/

Cheaper in money, not in time. I'm time poor

Vegan meals don’t take any longer to shop for or cook

Encourage her determination it’s a trait we should pride in our children. And watch Land of Hope & Glory on YouTube to help understand her POV

4) iodine- sea vegetables, iodised salt or supplement

Sea veg can have high levels of heavy metals and it's possible to over dose on iodine. Iodised salt is unlikely to give you your rda. Supplements are the most sensible but must be the rda as too much can also cause a thyroid issue.

I think there are parallels with a 10 year old who wants to take on an opposite gender identity.

Some parents would promptly start looking up how to facilitate gender transition, informing the school and linking up with other parents of transgender kids. Other parents who had facilitated transition would say, 'Welcome to the gang. Your new son will be so much healthier and happier this way.'

Others would say, 'Let's watch and wait. In the meantime we can compromise a bit by agreeing to call her Nigel.'

I'm not making any comment on the rights and wrongs of transgenderism. Simply saying that with any change that children announce they make there's a range of possible strategies and there is no one agreed proper way forward for parents.

Knowing one's own child normally helps.

@vegancow I agree they don't take longer to shop or cook for but it does take longer to plan a nutritionally complete menu for a 10yo. Online meal plans are for full grown adults and the nutritional needs of a 10yo female are different, and planning that takes time. I think an expectation that this can be done almost over night with no cost to the OP is unrealistic.

Oh how it makes me laugh...

A large percentage of people in the UK eat a pretty rubbish diet. Mention ‘vegan’ and everyone goes on about nutrition...as if eating mince, burgers, sausages and other crappy animal products automatically makes their diet nutritious. It’s utterly fucking ridiculous.

You are uncomfortable because your daughter is right. Eating animals is unethical and she’s making you squirm.

Exactly Anni loads of familes eat crap with basically just meat carbs and fat and its noones business but their own.
Much easier to get a healthy diet if you add in more vegetables and find vegan protein sources.
Her diet may be more limited but possibly more healthy

Vegan meals don’t take any longer to shop for or cook

I switched for Lent and yes, they did. I had to go to more shops, because the one we normally use didn't have everything. In particular I had a hell of a time finding proteins beyond beans/lentils (DH not a fan) and frozen Quorn type stuff. Trailing round about 3 health food shops and 2 Chinese supermarkets. And I had to cook more things from scratch because many prepared or partly-prepared things aren't vegan. I couldn't just buy a quiche and add a bag of salad, or ditto a pizza.

Also, the whole family does not want to go vegan in this case (for us, I cooked only vegan but DH cooked me e.g. separate sausages if he was making a meal for everyone).

In this case the main cook does not want to go vegan. I don't see why she should have to (and if you think everyone should go vegan or they are immoral, we have nothing to talk about here) - this would mean extra cooking and ESPECIALLY as it's a smaller girl she's cooking for, extra planning. And that's even if the DD eats absolutely everything that's put in front of her and has no preferences.

Ironically I have now decided to drastically reduce the amount of plastic we use in the house and it's been a lot easier in terms of shopping - I go in person to the health food shop in town and to the butcher and fishmonger that are next to each other, and there are a few things I order online from plastic-free companies. The main changes are in baking things and I like baking.

I can't read this whole thread. I was that child forced to eat meat, and I can tell you now it will make her hate you.

Support her decision to be vegan. It is not extra effort, just make the same food and substitute the meat with vegan quorn.

A multivitamin a day and you are done. Simple.

No I would not get involved with vegan friendly household products if you can't afford them, you could buy a few when they are on special offer though. You certainly can not force feed her animals just because it is inconvenient to make a small change to your cooking routine, it is going to cause a lot of aggravation further down the line as she gets older and feels more strongly about animals and their welfare. You are her mother but she owns her own body and choices.

I would pat yourself on the back, you have one hell of a clever and enlightened 10 year old and I would be delighted to have a child with so much emotional intelligence and understanding.

I think YABU.
Tell her you will support her but she has to make the transition in stages, so first vegetarian and then vegan.
She can't just "have the vegetables and pasta" - she has to manage her vitamin, minerals and protein requirements.
FWIW my sister tried to be vegan but felt so ill - and she really worked hard to get the nutrition right.

It is not extra effort, just make the same food and substitute the meat with vegan quorn.

And plant milk, that goes off before the one person drinking it finishes the carton, and that has to be bought from the supermarket not the milkman.
And vegan cheese which is disgusting and nobody else will eat the dish made with it. BTDT.
And getting exactly the right kind of biscuits and your family eating the ones that you bought specially GRR.
And about 3 things you can put on your sandwiches, two of which involve going to a special shop - bet the 10 year old isn't doing the shopping.
And buying egg substitutes if you want to bake which ditto come from a special shop.
And vegan mayo that nobody else will eat so goes off.

I have been that one vegan in the family and I'm the cook. And an adult.

If she's old enough to cook for herself and meal plan that is a different matter. I'm old enough to cook for myself and meal plan. I still found it a pain, and more expensive, and stuff went off before I could finish it because I was the only person eating it.

Honestly, these days, being vegetarian is not any hassle at all. That really does involve just substituting the meat, and a 10 year old will get all the nutrition she needs. But being vegan if the rest of the family isn't is still a huge pain.

I really don't see why the OP (and it will be the OP, not her DD or her DH) should have to do loads of extra shopping, planning and cooking.

I’ve read several pages of this thread.
You should be proud of your daughter for a start, breaking the cognitive dissonance between animals on your plate and animals as sentient beings is a tough one for many people.
Tesco soya milk 89p, lentils and beans etc 30-50p per can.
Being vegan is actually very cheap, despite what people think. Give her the opportunity to try and cook easy dishes for herself.

If you force her to continue a diet she really doesn’t want to eat will probably hold a lot of resentment from her. It’s her body, it should be her choice to not eat animals.
Multivitamin a day if you are so worried about vitamins.
Plant milks are fortified with vitamins the same as cows milk.

As for the products, shampoos etc are cheap and of fine quality from Tesco, Superdrug etc which are all cruelty free and vegan friendly. Aside from those with honey in.
Cleaning products, Unless she’s the one cleaning the home that’s not really her call to make. Same with the sofa, it’s already bought for.

Please at least consider letting her decide what she eats. If it’s a phase, you’ll find out soon enough.

@drspouse plant milks tend to last 7 days when chilled. Easily used up with a breakfast every morning.
As for cheese, except Violife which is just about passable they’re all bloody awful

I agree with Anni and Bran posts above. I've read a lot on this thread about how important a nutritionally balanced diet is and how difficult it is to ensure that the child is getting all the micronutrients with a vegan diet. Do all these omnivore parents put as much effort into planning their children's diets too? Just because you are eating some meat and dairy it doesn't mean that your diet is healthy or ideal. There can be good and bad vegan diets, just like there can be good and bad omnivorous diets.

@AnnieAnoniMoose exactly!

Feed child class 1 carcinogen- fine.

Child prefers to eat vegetables- omg they will die!

I don't tend to have cereal every morning, and not every child does, either; as a parent I'd be wary of letting my children drink any milk right to the end of its fridge life.

This is the problem if the whole family is not vegan. Also plant milk doesn't cook very well (especially if the rest of the family is not on board) and as I say if you are a family that uses a milkman, you have to buy it separately.

It is fine cooking vegetarian meals for most meals and having the whole family eat the same. You can usually get away with meat substitutes for either everyone or the veggie (except fishless fingers, they are also rank). The carnivores can have the odd real sausage or pepperoni pizza or chorizo in their omelette.

But if you are having to substitute all the dairy/eggs too - no, not easy. And will be resented by the omnivores. My omnivore DH really resented it. My DCs weren't happy with many of the meals and made their feelings known. And with small DCs the number of veggie Thai curries or spicy chillis is limited too.

It's really easy to accommodate one vegetarian member of the family who doesn't cook or meal plan, as long as everyone eats what's put in front of them. It is not easy if they are vegan.

I used to work making toiletries for own brands - bear in mind this was about 10 years ago but CoOp own brand was the best for non animal tested toiletries across their whole range if this helps

Do all these omnivore parents put as much effort into planning their children's diets too?

Actually yes I do. I make sure they have enough vegetables, complex carbs, dairy, and complete protein. Limited sweetened foods and make sure they get some oily fish.
We don't eat meat every day, but it's easier to make sure they are getting the complete protein they need if we have some.
When I was vegan, I was counting my nutrients on MFP and some days I had minimal protein. Now as a grown woman that's not a massive issue but for a child, I'd be very wary. If they happen not to like the 2 or 3 high protein breads I can get easily - that's a problem. If I can't find a protein filled sandwich filling they like and we can get easily - ditto.

I just don't get this obsession with protein. Where do you think huge, muscular animals like bulls and elephants get their protein from? They're vegan!