To say she can’t become a vegan yet

[funnyfairy360]

So my 10yr old DD has announced that she does not believe it is Ok to use animal products any more and from now on will not be eating/wearing/using anything made from animals or produced by animals. She does not even want to be ‘forced’ to sit on our leather couch. Now don’t get me wrong I’m all for her finding her own way in life but this is not just becoming vegetarian or going goth, becoming vegan is life changing and to be honest too inconvenient and expensive for me to make happen for her right now. She said she has the right to choose I say yes when she can pay for the products and cook the food herself .....she wants vegan friendly washing up liquid/shampoo/ soap/ clothes/this list could go on and on. None of the rest of us have any desire to go vegan.

[MsFrizzle]

Everybody should be taking B12 supplements, btw. A lot of meat eaters are low in it - that isn't really an excuse.

What if she refuses to eat the food you give her that isn't vegan? It isn't that expensive. Teach her to cook some meals like pasta (the dried pasta is vegan friendly) with soy mince or something. She's old enough to.

[pennycarbonara]

The last paragraph is the most important really:

But that’s not to say that in today’s modern world you cannot survive without meat. The millions of vegans and vegetarians are testament to that. Today we have lots of food options available, at least in the developed Western countries. As people are becoming more health conscious, we gain more understanding of the role that high fiber diets have in reducing disease risk, and the concerns we have over animal welfare in farming, more and more people are turning to a vegetarian or vegan diet. As a result of public demand more vegan food, fortified with those essential vitamins, are appearing on supermarket shelves and restaurants are popping up all over the place. I think that’s great. Personally I love vegetarian food and I’m not a big meat eater (more on that later). But I am also passionate about science and factual information, and trying to argue that humans are biologically herbivores and meat ‘rots in our bodies’ makes vegans look more like religious zealots who will say anything to gain followers, even if it is completely bogus.

A lot more people are physically capable of being vegan than are currently so. It is annoying and hostile when militant vegans insist that only very tiny numbers of people can't manage without meat or dairy, and that people with restrictions should have to follow very narrow plans in order to still be vegan (to give an example I've seen a few times online, vegan and low FODMAP and an allergy to another important vegan protein source) but if maybe 60% of the population ate a plant based diet or near as dammit that would make a big difference.

I think it's more helpful and conciliatory to see it as a cultural shift rather than pathologising all vegans. Other cultures might think we are weird for not eating certain animals, and/or for eating dairy products at all.

I suspect that for some groups of teenagers today veganism or trying to be, must be similar to the norm of non-animal tested products among my year at secondary school, to them it's just obviously the done thing.

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

Meh
Just had a chick pea salad (must remember how they bloat me) and am thoroughly irritating my family by recounting the findings of ‘what the health’

For me it’s a no brainer. Eating animals that have been extensively reared , brutally killed and pumped with 80% Of Pfizer’s annual sales is not appealing . Nor is the fact that their shit and waste ends up polluting the local environment so badly that locals have respiratory disease

[JennieLee]

Perhaps there's a question of balancing what is green and what is ethical against a scientific look at how our bodies are designed. This is worth a read.

theethicalomnivoreblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/humans-are-omnivores-not-herbivores-not-carnivores/

[pennycarbonara]

@JennieLee But what do you think of research by environmental scientists that recommends veganism, or the earlier UN report?

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
(Though I am more inclined to see it as one of the major ones along with not flying and having below-replacement numbers of /no children, as per a couple of studies that compared different actions www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children.)

www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

Personally I don't really like the way vegans use such emotive language about farm animals rather than wildlife, but I have to remember that IRL it's not as if reduction in meat consumption by the general public is going to result in vast numbers of cows roaming about and reproducing like deer - farmers will diversify or change strategies where they are able to, and just won't breed as many.

[kikisparks]

@JennieLee in my experience those who care more about animal suffering also care more about human suffering- empathy means you see suffering more not less. Lots donate to human charities and foodbanks and campaign for social welfare causes- for example I work for a social justice charity and a higher proportion of us are vegan or veggie than the general population as we care more about injustice.

However, there isn’t much practically we can do about human suffering but just not paying for animal suffering is certainly in our control.

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

Kiki

I am very nearly there and have been 80% plant based since January

It’s got so many reasons for it :
Health
Disease
Ethical
Environmental

And it baffles me when people sneer at it

I don’t even need to watch earthlings (harrowing ) as the health and environmental sold me . But yes we should had mandatory class trips to an abbatoir , intensive dairy and pig factory

Seriously why don’t we ever ever get too see these places ?

I am astounded that people are so wilfully blind

[JennieLee]

Do most people love animals? I'm not keen on foxes, pigeons or rats. I got quite fond of my neighbour's chickens when I looked after them, but that was because I enjoyed eating the eggs.

While I would agree that eating a lower amount of meat, is more environmentally conscious, I do see the rise of veganism as a form of orthorexia. Extreme anxiety about what constitutes 'good' food is not necessarily healthy. I tend to relate it to the kind of over-control exhibited by those with anorexia.

I also find it a bit odd that those who are so concerned about animal suffering, often seem to care much less about human suffering. I do think it would be great if some of that animal rights energy could be diverted into working to try and alleviate the way members of our own species are exploited and abused.

I know that there are various non-animal sources of iron - leafy veg etc - but when I used to have periods, I found red meat was the best source of iron, and felt a great deal better as a result.

[kikisparks]

@stopfuckingshoutingatme it is growing! It’s grown 360% in the last 10 years. I’ve been vegan 8 years and when I first made the switch most people didn’t even knew what vegan was and eating out was tough and the only plant milk in the supermarket was soya milk and I had to go to Holland and Barrett for vegan cheese.

The difference now is immense, everyone has heard of veganism, social media is awash with images and videos of the suffering in animal agriculture, every supermarket chain has a wealth of convenience options, most restaurants have options, and there are loads of documentaries- what the health, forks over knives, cowspiracy, dominion, vegucated, land of hope and glory, the game changers etc. When I went vegan it was just earthlings which I’d recommend everyone to watch and keep an open mind. My immediate family have all gone vegan, my husband did last year and his family are transitioning. Most people love animals and with gentle education can understand that they are harmed to get animal products and it’s not necessary for us to eat them.

Not sure if you’re already vegan yourself but if not and you want any recipes, tips on convenience food, info on nutrients or other support to help you make the change let me know

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

I am just watching ‘what the health’
Veganism is so the way forward for your DD and all of us

Sigh .

[Tinkobell]

The reason why I'm obliging is because I figure there are far far worse things for kids to be 'into' these days than vegetables!
I have had a lot of flack from the grandparents "why do I pander?" Etc etc....to which I answer "could be worse, she could be into online porn, drugs etc.....we are just talking vegetables!" .....always shuts them up! 😁

[hmcAsWas]

Tinkobell - you're a better person than me!

[Tinkobell]

From experience (vegan daughter) what really does make life a pain in the arse and expensive are members of the family all having differing dietary requirements. I cook each night for a vegan, two meat eaters and a gluten free no carbs dieter - fish and chicken. It's really hard going. I have a repertoire of dishes

• gluten free pasta Bol, vegan & meaty.
  
• fajitas
  
• variety of salads with warm toppings
  
• stir fries
  
• Thai curries
  
• BBQ with vegan option
  

It's hard work. Many leftovers in fridge that get dumped. Much loved favourites like stews etc are too hard to do for 2 people. I'm the cook, I'm knackered.

[chocatoo]

The only thing I would say is don’t force the rest of your family to eat food made using vegan cheese, milk, etc. in an effort to make just one dish because that’s not fair on them. I would get your daughter to do as much of her cooking as poss.

[pennycarbonara]

That sounds like a perfectly good solution for 15 and 18 year olds (really can't understand why these aren't choosing and cooking food for themselves if they want to be vegan) but it's probably a minority of 10 year olds these days who can cook a full meal for themselves while the rest of the household eats something else.

[notacooldad]

Veganism doesnt have to be a huge problem
I have suggested this on other threads with the same issue but why not buy or get out from the library the cook book ' "virtually vegan" which is a vegan cook book that offers alternatives to the recipes for meat eaters.
Google words like vegan family meals,vegan budget meals, vegan meal plans etc for ideas.

[VeganCow]

drspouse you’re right. I didn’t see op last post. Good luck OP and your plan to see if she still wants this in new year. It may be a fad but if not you have offered support then.

[drspouse]

I don't think many people have taken on board that the OP doesn't want to go vegan and neither does the rest of the family.

[JennieLee]

Cooking meat, fish, eggs can be really quick. (Scrambled egg, grilling meat or fish.)

Cooking nuts, pulses, grains etc well is a lot slower. Yes there is vegan fast food and it is possible to heat up a can of beans. But most of the taste comes from careful use of spices, and also from - for example - roasting nuts/and vegetables to bring out maximum flavour. So to eat good vegan food you do have to devote a lot of time to cooking. I'd argue that in a time-poor world eating animal protein is a lot quicker - even though it may be a less ethical choice. Given that time is a huge issue for working parents, switching to a vegan diet - with all the associated learning - is a big ask, especially if the parent doesn't actually want to be vegan!

[77leaves]

Being vegan is actually cheaper than not being vegan, unless you insist on buying dairy and meat substitutes (I wouldn't and I find those items disturbing to be honest, like why would you want highly processed imitation meat). Vegan food is just food. It is a lot more effort and work though to make sure you aren't consuming/using anything made with animal products. It's not appropriate for her to dictate what the household uses, like washing up soap etc if the rest of you don't want to be vegan, but I think she should be able to choose not to eat animal products.

[Mousefunky]

As others have pointed out, some own brand items that are very cheap are vegan. Original source shower gel is available for £1 in Home Bargains for example and is vegan.

Vegan food can be v.cheap too, it doesn’t have to be expensive. Maybe your family could begin having one or two vegan meals a week? It’s better for the environment.

Try your best to accommodate her wishes, she will only resent you if not.

[StaySafe]

When we are all at home I cook for vegan son, vegetarian son, coeliac omnivore husband and nearly vegan me. Once you get into this it is not that difficult, and in reality it means we eat vegan main meals ( no one notices the lack of meat or dairy because I am a very good cook) some things such as a traditional apple crumble and custard made with soy milk, Birds custard powder, gluten free flour, vegan margarine, ground almonds and a few gluten free oats taste almost exactly the same as the standard versions and suit us all.

[kikisparks]

Just been in Tesco and on a 3 for £5 deal were veggie paella, bean chilli and rice and edamame laksa, all marked as vegan also vegan Mac and cheese on a similar deal. Ready meals aren’t ideal all the time of course but this is a cheap, convienient and in the case of the first 3 ostensibly healthy option that would do a few dinners for the week. They had 4 vegan creme Brulees for £1.25 and a vegan Margherita oven pizza for £3ish which could be the occasional treat. It really doesn’t have to be that hard.

[drspouse]

Vegan the difference is you cook your vegan food. And you're able to assess if you're getting a balanced diet. You're an adult, and one of the regular cooks in the family.

Maybe the 10 year old can cook her own vegan food for every meal, occasionally cook for everyone, and assess if she's getting enough vegetables/too much fat/sugar. I doubt it though.

I also doubt she's going to be calling in to extra shops, or paying the bills for different foods.

[VeganCow]

drspouse I am the only vegan in our family of 3 though. I wouldn’t t dream of pushing it on other people. We all eat vegan meals if I cook a big curry or whatever but otherwise I just cook my thing alongside the potatoes and veg or whatever. It’s not hard to do that. But then there is the other option which is to shut the 10 year old down and tell her she can’t become vegan.