To say she can’t become a vegan yet

[funnyfairy360]

So my 10yr old DD has announced that she does not believe it is Ok to use animal products any more and from now on will not be eating/wearing/using anything made from animals or produced by animals. She does not even want to be ‘forced’ to sit on our leather couch. Now don’t get me wrong I’m all for her finding her own way in life but this is not just becoming vegetarian or going goth, becoming vegan is life changing and to be honest too inconvenient and expensive for me to make happen for her right now. She said she has the right to choose I say yes when she can pay for the products and cook the food herself .....she wants vegan friendly washing up liquid/shampoo/ soap/ clothes/this list could go on and on. None of the rest of us have any desire to go vegan.

As for this notion that parents should always accommodate their children for fear of resentment, that’s rubbish. Sometimes children need to be told that what they want just isn’t possible at this particular time. And snap announcements such as wanting to be vegan and wanting the whole family to change their ways to suit her, get rid of the leather sofa etc show that she is clearly still not mature enough to rationally make that decision for herself.

It beats me why meat eaters get so arsy about vegans and vegetarians. I don’t care what people do in their own lives. Eat meat, don’t eat meat, whatever floats yer boat. But if you’re vegetarian or vegan you presumably wouldn’t be happy if your ten year old came home and announced that the whole family should now become omnivorous and every thursday night should be steak night would you?

I would tell a vegetarian or vegan that if their child wanted to eat meat elsewhere it should be up to them to do so just as I would tell a meat eater that if their child wanted to only eat vegy elsewhere they should be able to do that. But I wouldn’t tell either that they should be pandering to it in their own homes where they do the cooking and pay the bills.

Enko

The same could be said the other way around

Not really though. I mean, I know we have the classic militant vegan stereotype but they don't really frequent mumsnet in my experience.

For example, if there was a thread about tasty barbecue food and how best to cook a steak, it would be highly unlikely to receive numerous passive aggressive posts and derision from vegans and vegetarians. Especially not from multiple posters.

But every single thread about veganism will have multiple meat-eaters commenting negatively, rudely and angrily. Without a doubt.

If you've got the time to cook from scratch 7 nights a week then you've got the time to research vegan meals.

I suspect most busy families aren't cooking from scratch all the time. So if its burger and chips a vegan burger can be provided. If its pizza treat on saturday night a vegan version can be bought from supermarkets. Swap white pasta for wholemeal etc.

So the family has to cook two different pots of food... eg white pasta and brown pasta; lentil bolognese and mince bolognese ... that's going to double the cooking part of the fuel bill. Then double the washing up, or double the number of pans in the dishwasher... generally more utensils and prep tools. Double the menu planning balancing costs, nutrition and time. Who in the family is this extra cost and labour going to fall onto?

If you've got the time to cook from scratch 7 nights a week then you've got the time to research vegan meals. Not true I work full time and cook from scratch most days. I do not have time to do the research in to the nutritional make up of individual vegan meals. I have a range of meals (veggie, vegan and meat) which I know the nutritional make up of, gained over a period of time (the 20 years or so I've been cooking) which allow me to make a nutritionally complete weekly menu without researching or giving it much thought. If I had to sit down and plan it, like I would if I suddenly became vegan, I wouldn't cook as I wouldn't have time.

Out of interest, if the family were vegan and a child came home stating she wanted to eat meat, would you expect the family to accommodate it? I certainly wouldn't despite the fact it would actually be very physically easy (morally, emotionally and probably with smell it would not).

You seem to assume I have no experience of this. I do. My mum was pescatarian from me being born, veggie from me being 6 and vegan from me being 14. When she became vegan her meals differed greatly from the family meals (we all continued to eat meat) so that she could have a nutritionally complete diet. A severe intolerance to beans precluded us from all eating a lot of vegan meals as a family though I did become veggie for a period, not being able to eat beans (and later soya) made it too difficult for me to sustain though. I also don't have enough care for animal welfare to do more than buy outdoor reared meat.

brown pasta is healthier than white so could be replaced. Any additional cooking/fuel costs in miniscule - veggie mince cooks alot quicker than meat anyway. If money is that much of a problem I'd probably scrap the christmas turkey and have nut roast. Save about 4 hours and less washing up.

Not sure where the OP has gone, but I tried a plant based diet (I didn't change anything non-food) for Lent and while it was interesting and tasty and a good challenge, it meant I was doing pretty much all the cooking and pretty much all of it was from scratch, and it was more expensive than non-vegan because of the things that my family will eat.

So while I'd do that for me, for a short time, I'm not doing it long term!

I would tell her she can have an allowance for HER toiletries and the rest of you will carry on as you are, nothing else in the house will change, and she can start off by planning and cooking one meal a week as vegan.

If she eats a variety of vegetables and pulses and you are satisfied she eats a balanced diet, you might consider increasing that, but if she's also a fussy eater then no.

If its pizza treat on saturday night a vegan version can be bought from supermarkets.
I found it impossible to get this kind of thing in a vegan version. The only real ready meal options were a few stir fry dishes, a very few Indian meals, and burgers/sausages. Maybe you shop at different supermarkets (we are in the Waitrose-free North).

(we are in the Waitrose-free North).

Remarkable. Me too. Sainsburys do vegan pizza. Morrisons do veggie curry as do Tesco. HTH.

Our Sainsbury's is sadly tiny, yes I have had veggie curry from Morrison's as I have said!

Er no, if you want to make a decent bolognese, whether that be meat or veggie, it needs a long slow cooking time. And if there's one time of year I want my meat (organic chicken as goose/turkey is too huge), it's in the depths of midwinter on those dark nights when it seems long days and hot summers are in the next eternity. I have had nut roasts at xmas and they don't come close to cutting it.

whether that be meat or veggie, it needs a long slow cooking time

Wrong. Veggie mince has short cooking time.

I have had nut roasts at xmas and they don't come close to cutting it.

Maybe the vegan child thinks differently?

I found it impossible to get this kind of thing in a vegan version
Tesco do their own vegan pizza which is ok, and Goodfellas do a vegan pizza, available in Morrison's (and possibly elsewhere I don't know) but it isn't very good. Not found the vegan pizza in our sainbury's though.

It's not (just) the meat that is helped by a long cooking time (though the frozen vegan mince I have says 20 mins). Cooking a bolognese sauce for a long slow time means the flavours all mix together well.

brown pasta is healthier than white so could be replaced. actually not true for children. The younger the child the less healthy it is for them, but for adults, fair enough.

Tesco do their own vegan pizza
Ours also must be relatively small (we never go to the bigger local one as it's miles) as they don't have it.
I did also look in our Morrison's but despite having quite a good range overall they didn't have it at the time. I specifically checked because the FB groups with vegan supermarket foods were talking about one specific one but it wasn't in our branch.
We may just have useless supermarkets!

We may just have useless supermarkets! A lot is dependent on your area, I lived in a Jewish area, we had rows of kosher food in our local Tesco where as where I am now we have a lot of vegan/ free from stuff due to the make up of my current community. So I guess it'll be based on what's going to sell where you are.

Halal food and pies... Based on a totally sweeping set of stereotypes!

Which is probably why we don't have masses of Indian vegetarian food, but we do have some, and not much "Western" veggie/vegan food.

Anyway I am now back being an omnivore but with a less meat-based diet.

Crikey, these threads always bring out the psychos from both sides!

FWIW I do think YABU OP. It won't be that hard/expensive and these days there are lots of delicious vegan foods.

I'm not vegan btw, I eat meat and love it. I just don't mind others not eating it and I think the planet would benefit from us all cutting down a bit.

@ Not really, Enko. Most people who don't eat meat don't give a rat's arse what other people put in their mouths.

Really NOT my experience @bluelady In fact I have found many vegan people and vegetarian people who will comment on each mouthful of food I put into my mouth that is not vegan/vegetarian. I find it outright rude.

I am fine either way if you tell me your vegetarian/vegan prior to coming to my house for a meal i will cater for that. if i go to a vegetarian/vegans house I expect to be served vegetarian / vegan food and I eat it happily. However if we go out to a restaurant I expect to be able to eat what "i" wish to eat without comment.. That has sadly often been lacking.

In my opinion we both need to respect the others rights to make the choices to be Carnival/pescatarian/vegetarian/vegan just not try to force our views on others.

@DiegoMadonna
As you will see in my response above my opinion is that we all should be respectful of each others choices. I have however sadly plenty a times had friends who are non meateaters have very little respect for my choice to eat meat. (I even had one who felt she needed to send me articles about how awful my diet was - now an x friend for many reasons not just that)

I stand by what I have said I find that it goes both ways. I personally am of the opinion we should be respectful of all choices. A 10 year old in my family would not be permitted to change how the entire family eats/what products they use. However at age 10 if my child had wanted to go vegetarian i would have supported that. Vegan would have got the response dd2 got at age 17 to research it and give me information. I don't wish to be vegan myself so I do not wish to do the research. I will support if if you have done it and can explain why this is important. If you want to make big changes you need to understand how the changes affects you. You also need to be able to accept others do not share your views.

@KimCheesePickle

its not that hard to cook for 2 types of diet choices. For example on Monday we had Spag bol.

1 pot had the tomato sauce, veg, spices etc. 1 pot had pasta 1 pot had meat in it. After a period we stuck most of the tomato sauce into the meat and added lentils to the pot with the tomato sauce.. left both to cook and then at the end of it there was 1 more pot to clean than if we had cooked the same for all of us.

As a rule for the vegetarian/meat diet combo it is not complex. It is simply learning how to cook the meat in a tasty way separately to the vegetarian part of the course.

Vegan meal plans already exist and aren't difficult to find e.g. : veganuary.com/starter-kit/vegan-meal-plans/

There will be lots more if you look beyond the top Google search results (which is all I bothered to do).

It's no biggy to go vegan and it shows she has strong principles, I admire her.

this thread is a classic of mn over sensitivity and poor English comprehension.

the issue is not the veganism, it is the kid's choices making extra work. if the kid means it, she takes the extra work.

Couldn't you find some middle ground? I'd be quite proud she had strong morals.

Tesco's own brands of cleaning products and toiletries are, wherever possible, not tested on animals, and cheaper than regular ones (and good). I don't understand why anyone would choose to buy something tested on animals when there's a cheap, easy alternative.

Cook a couple of vegan meals a week, then do a Sunday roast for the rest of the family with roast pots cooked in olive oils and lots of veg, then a nut cutlet for her. Other than that, have a few vegan ready meals or Tom basil pasta available. Let her get involved in preparing/cooking.

Give her a budget for shampoos etc. Let her find what she needs online. A lot of supermarket brands are good and easy to find on a regular shop, Superdrug too.

Obviously things like the settee can't be changed. Is there an alternative chair she could use?