To say she can’t become a vegan yet

[funnyfairy360]

So my 10yr old DD has announced that she does not believe it is Ok to use animal products any more and from now on will not be eating/wearing/using anything made from animals or produced by animals. She does not even want to be ‘forced’ to sit on our leather couch. Now don’t get me wrong I’m all for her finding her own way in life but this is not just becoming vegetarian or going goth, becoming vegan is life changing and to be honest too inconvenient and expensive for me to make happen for her right now. She said she has the right to choose I say yes when she can pay for the products and cook the food herself .....she wants vegan friendly washing up liquid/shampoo/ soap/ clothes/this list could go on and on. None of the rest of us have any desire to go vegan.

[hmcAsWas]

Tinkobell - you're a better person than me!

[Tinkobell]

The reason why I'm obliging is because I figure there are far far worse things for kids to be 'into' these days than vegetables!
I have had a lot of flack from the grandparents "why do I pander?" Etc etc....to which I answer "could be worse, she could be into online porn, drugs etc.....we are just talking vegetables!" .....always shuts them up! 😁

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

I am just watching ‘what the health’
Veganism is so the way forward for your DD and all of us

Sigh .

[kikisparks]

@stopfuckingshoutingatme it is growing! It’s grown 360% in the last 10 years. I’ve been vegan 8 years and when I first made the switch most people didn’t even knew what vegan was and eating out was tough and the only plant milk in the supermarket was soya milk and I had to go to Holland and Barrett for vegan cheese.

The difference now is immense, everyone has heard of veganism, social media is awash with images and videos of the suffering in animal agriculture, every supermarket chain has a wealth of convenience options, most restaurants have options, and there are loads of documentaries- what the health, forks over knives, cowspiracy, dominion, vegucated, land of hope and glory, the game changers etc. When I went vegan it was just earthlings which I’d recommend everyone to watch and keep an open mind. My immediate family have all gone vegan, my husband did last year and his family are transitioning. Most people love animals and with gentle education can understand that they are harmed to get animal products and it’s not necessary for us to eat them.

Not sure if you’re already vegan yourself but if not and you want any recipes, tips on convenience food, info on nutrients or other support to help you make the change let me know

[JennieLee]

Do most people love animals? I'm not keen on foxes, pigeons or rats. I got quite fond of my neighbour's chickens when I looked after them, but that was because I enjoyed eating the eggs.

While I would agree that eating a lower amount of meat, is more environmentally conscious, I do see the rise of veganism as a form of orthorexia. Extreme anxiety about what constitutes 'good' food is not necessarily healthy. I tend to relate it to the kind of over-control exhibited by those with anorexia.

I also find it a bit odd that those who are so concerned about animal suffering, often seem to care much less about human suffering. I do think it would be great if some of that animal rights energy could be diverted into working to try and alleviate the way members of our own species are exploited and abused.

I know that there are various non-animal sources of iron - leafy veg etc - but when I used to have periods, I found red meat was the best source of iron, and felt a great deal better as a result.

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

Kiki

I am very nearly there and have been 80% plant based since January

It’s got so many reasons for it :
Health
Disease
Ethical
Environmental

And it baffles me when people sneer at it

I don’t even need to watch earthlings (harrowing ) as the health and environmental sold me . But yes we should had mandatory class trips to an abbatoir , intensive dairy and pig factory

Seriously why don’t we ever ever get too see these places ?

I am astounded that people are so wilfully blind

[kikisparks]

@JennieLee in my experience those who care more about animal suffering also care more about human suffering- empathy means you see suffering more not less. Lots donate to human charities and foodbanks and campaign for social welfare causes- for example I work for a social justice charity and a higher proportion of us are vegan or veggie than the general population as we care more about injustice.

However, there isn’t much practically we can do about human suffering but just not paying for animal suffering is certainly in our control.

[pennycarbonara]

@JennieLee But what do you think of research by environmental scientists that recommends veganism, or the earlier UN report?

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
(Though I am more inclined to see it as one of the major ones along with not flying and having below-replacement numbers of /no children, as per a couple of studies that compared different actions www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children.)

www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

Personally I don't really like the way vegans use such emotive language about farm animals rather than wildlife, but I have to remember that IRL it's not as if reduction in meat consumption by the general public is going to result in vast numbers of cows roaming about and reproducing like deer - farmers will diversify or change strategies where they are able to, and just won't breed as many.

[JennieLee]

Perhaps there's a question of balancing what is green and what is ethical against a scientific look at how our bodies are designed. This is worth a read.

theethicalomnivoreblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/humans-are-omnivores-not-herbivores-not-carnivores/

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

Meh
Just had a chick pea salad (must remember how they bloat me) and am thoroughly irritating my family by recounting the findings of ‘what the health’

For me it’s a no brainer. Eating animals that have been extensively reared , brutally killed and pumped with 80% Of Pfizer’s annual sales is not appealing . Nor is the fact that their shit and waste ends up polluting the local environment so badly that locals have respiratory disease

[pennycarbonara]

The last paragraph is the most important really:

But that’s not to say that in today’s modern world you cannot survive without meat. The millions of vegans and vegetarians are testament to that. Today we have lots of food options available, at least in the developed Western countries. As people are becoming more health conscious, we gain more understanding of the role that high fiber diets have in reducing disease risk, and the concerns we have over animal welfare in farming, more and more people are turning to a vegetarian or vegan diet. As a result of public demand more vegan food, fortified with those essential vitamins, are appearing on supermarket shelves and restaurants are popping up all over the place. I think that’s great. Personally I love vegetarian food and I’m not a big meat eater (more on that later). But I am also passionate about science and factual information, and trying to argue that humans are biologically herbivores and meat ‘rots in our bodies’ makes vegans look more like religious zealots who will say anything to gain followers, even if it is completely bogus.

A lot more people are physically capable of being vegan than are currently so. It is annoying and hostile when militant vegans insist that only very tiny numbers of people can't manage without meat or dairy, and that people with restrictions should have to follow very narrow plans in order to still be vegan (to give an example I've seen a few times online, vegan and low FODMAP and an allergy to another important vegan protein source) but if maybe 60% of the population ate a plant based diet or near as dammit that would make a big difference.

I think it's more helpful and conciliatory to see it as a cultural shift rather than pathologising all vegans. Other cultures might think we are weird for not eating certain animals, and/or for eating dairy products at all.

I suspect that for some groups of teenagers today veganism or trying to be, must be similar to the norm of non-animal tested products among my year at secondary school, to them it's just obviously the done thing.

[MsFrizzle]

Everybody should be taking B12 supplements, btw. A lot of meat eaters are low in it - that isn't really an excuse.

What if she refuses to eat the food you give her that isn't vegan? It isn't that expensive. Teach her to cook some meals like pasta (the dried pasta is vegan friendly) with soy mince or something. She's old enough to.