To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

I’ve not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been thrashed through.
Schooling and parental expectations have a lot to do with it too. DS and his peers in MC Australia were outrageously boisterous. They also enjoyed school, where they had a varied curriculum, lots of exercise and thrived. His English cousins were just as ‘lively’ but hated school. From age 4, they were under stimulated physically and felt failures academically. Aussie boys grow out of the boisterousness and knuckle down academically (although there is a particular Aussie toxic masculinity)
The English prep school system for both boys and girls channels children’s physicality; the pre school and key stage 1 syllabus stifles it.

^ I’ve read a few more posts and can we please give each other a bit of a break. Parents at playgroups are not their best selves. We’re navigating socialising, supervising dcs, and sitting down knackered.

I also notice that males are babied and pandered too far more than girls

Well that’s what you’ll be doing with your boy then.

My three year old boy is kind, polite and very loving.

Also, being a small child he can be irrational, angry and a bit of an arsehole.

I always thought it was the girls at toddler groups who were much bigger twats, maybe it's a case of perception..?

Well you’ve totally pissed me of OP. Firstly my second DS is called Benjamin (I do apologise) and my first born who is two generally behaves well and if he doesn’t I swiftly tell him off. Massive overgeneralisation. The amount of girls I’ve seen who misbehave.
It’s down to parenting and most certainly not because of their gender or their name.

I hate how boy toddlers when naked are laughed at or just ignored but girl toddlers are instantly covered up.

My dd is literally the only girl in her class who will regularly raise her hand. The boys are quite happy to do this or shout out.

I hate how boy toddlers when naked are laughed at or just ignored but girl toddlers are instantly covered up.

Oh yeah that’s probably because the mums of girls are paranoid that little boys are staring. Even though boys couldn’t actually give a shit like and are more bothered about other more important things around them.

I hate how boy toddlers when naked are laughed at or just ignored but girl toddlers are instantly covered up.

I was 10 or 11 when I stopped playing on the beach naked (lived by the sea). Nowadays I never see naked children toddlers or otherwise, not sure if because I no longer live by the sea or because people are too paranoid about paedos now but my husband makes me put pants on our son before guests come (though the waitrose delivery man has seen his willy).

There's been numerous studies on this and they all conclude that boys are allowed to get away with much more. The clothes that little girls are put in and the sense of shame put on little girls around nudity and touching themselves, also has an effect.

It's a playgroup. Children play. Hitting, scratching and snatching are phases all kids go through.

Little boys are more lively. I used to think like you OP. Then I had a son.

I don't necessarily think boys do it more but where boys get given the 'boys will be boys cliche' girls will be reprimanded.

BatShitBuns good for your son! It takes all sorts to make up the world. Actually my son did play with the dolls for a bit but the boys at this group were wilder!

It's interesting that people "promoting" girls and saying that they are just as energetic as boys etc (which they can be) always turns into a boy bashing thread.

I have a girl and a boy under 5. I agree that society tends to condone behaviour in boys that would be considered naughty for girls. I keep hearing this "let boys be boys" and it really annoys me!!!! Because it's that attitude that makes boys think that they can get away with most things because they are "cheeky". Same applies for "leadership skills", which are put down in girls as "don't be bossy" but praised in boys as "he's such a leader".

It doesn't mean all boys will grow up to be tw*ts, I certainly hope that I can balance out society's influence with some inclusive talking about equality and respect.... Let's see... Fingers crossed

How about looking at this the other way round? Why do we stamp the behaviour out in girls? We are teaching girls to be passive and quiet and not upset people. We should be teaching them to be assertive, to look after their own needs, not to take crap off anyone. Of course we need to teach them to do it appropriately but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with running around being boisterous. it is this that leads to the number of women on Mumsnet who are scared to open their front door if their isn't a man about.

YANBU. Girls’ behaviour in general is far more policed. One example: watching Wimbledon the other day, a male player was really throwing his weight about, screaming and shouting. If a female player had done one tenth of what he did she would have been fined/sent off whatever.
Male bad behaviour is much more tolerated.

P.S. Helpful Person, totally agree with you.

My son was a sweet, kind and gentle toddler. I don't believe it has anything to do with his sex. It's personality coupled with parenting. I have known rough boys, and rough girls.

Some men are entitled little wankers, but to put that label on a toddler? Fucking hell.

see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people

Fucking hell, you got that from watching toddlers at a playgroup? I feel very sorry for your little boy.

Agree with helpfulperson. I remember being told constantly that I was bossy at primary school virtually every time I opened my mouth (v. Old fashioned teachers) and feeling really shamed like it was the worst thing to be in the world. Trying so hard to not use that word with my dd but I also then feel like other parents expect me to jump on her at groups when she’s being assertive and reprimand it as bad behaviour. Also weary of the dreaded ‘helicopter parenting’. I largely think toddlers of the same age can be left to sort out their own arguments (with the exception of really nasty violent or mean behaviour). I don’t think nagging at every little misdemeanour helps a child to learn to regulate their behaviour.

Yes totally agree. Boys are allowed to get away with so much more and the parents excuse it with “boys will be boys”

As a result my sons are in a minority as gentle well behaved boys where we are. Girls get the awful behaviour stamped out of them.

Yanbu op. I've witnessed it a lot too, and it annoys the heck out of me. Dd1s peer group throughout primary and secondary appeared to be like this. I only have dds but I have a brother and my mum says she never tolerated different standards of behaviour from us and I think as a result he is a very " non blokey" man iykwim

Er helpful person it's not stamping out, it's called teaching kids to be considerate and empathetic. Running around, fine. Snatching etc absolutely not.

Christ OP!

Your kid's are in for a treat aren't they?

The biggest problem you have is that you use phrases like "toxic masculinity".

It's just a soundbite, and it isn't even your soundbite.

You're about eight years late to party.