To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

I have a boisterous boy and a quiet one.
Parented exactly the same way and hugely different. One gets himself into trouble and one doesn't.
My boisterous boy is told off, encouraged to behave constantly, but he's wired differently to my other son. He isn't entitled and he doesn't cause trouble and get away with it, but you are being unreasonable.
Poor parenting is poor parenting what ever the child and irrespective of their sex.

Fucking hell, you got that from watching toddlers at a playgroup? I feel very sorry for your little boy.

Quite a leap isn’t it. I imagine the op wouldn’t like it if someone made the assumption that women turn out to be controlling bitches from watching some of the female toddlers at playgroup.

If the OP had witnessed little girls behaving like that, it'd be free spirits and other shite.

Little boys? Clearly little thugs.

Confirmation bias or what

Ah, I see evening has brought out the more ‘energetic’ and ‘boisterous’ posters.

Flowersinmygarden - I do see girls behaving like that, including my own. I then see their parents taking appropriate action and it stopping. See my OP.

Funinthesun - I get it, you have two boys and you are defensive about the way they are viewed by society. Other mothers of boys on this thread have agreed with me, as their own well brought up boys stand out. It’s not the fact that they are boys, it’s the way they are patented. I’ve seen the same behaviour in boys and girls, but the way some parents respond to the behaviour in boys is inadequate, and encourages them to be entitled and grow up not considering others, and thinking they can do what the fuck they like. See: society.

Actually, my OP was pretty clear. If people don’t get it, I’m not going to be able to simplify it further...

YABU Um all toddlers should be screaming,running and shouting at a play group. They are just out of babyhood and playing. 10 year olds not so much. The fact you want all toddlers to be like your dd speaks volumes.

Some toddlers will snatch and hit as often it's the first time they've had to share. This is not desirable but can happen at this age and takes a few goes to stamp,out.

Pretty sure your dd will survive playing amongst boisterous children but if she can't maybe you need to pick a new playgroup. Not really getting why all toddlers have to be a carbon copy of what you think is desirable.

For those in need of a simplified explanation:

Wikipedia - The concert of toxic masculinity is used in Psychology and Gender Studies to refer to certain norms of masculine behaviour in North America and Europe that are associated to harm to society and harm to the men themselves

If you don’t see how that links to my original point, well, probably no point in carry on debating with you...

I get it, you have two boys and you are defensive about the way they are viewed by society.

No it’s just you who has got my back up a bit.

Other mothers of boys on this thread have agreed with me, as their own well brought up boys stand out.

I agree with some of the things you have said actually. I don’t like the “boys will be boys excuses” as much as you don’t, and I don’t let my children become out of control. It’s the next bit I don’t agree with...

It’s not the fact that they are boys, it’s the way they are patented. I’ve seen the same behaviour in boys and girls, but the way some parents respond to the behaviour in boys is inadequate, and encourages them to be entitled and grow up not considering others, and thinking they can do what the fuck they like. See: society.

This is the bit I disagree with you the most on. Boys and girls are equally treated as little darlings who can do no wrong. The amount of times I have seen girl’s behaviour laughed off/excused and even encouraged because its apparently cool to be a little diva. Girls being rough with other children is seen as strong willed and positive.

Wikipedia isnt reliable by the way.
Do you have gender disappointment op, would you rather be having a girl? Just wondering if youre projecting.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread.... but, bad parenting is bad parenting! It has nothing to do with the gender of the child(ren). Your kids will behave, broadly, in the manner you teach/demonstrate to them is acceptable. If you don't want them to do certain things, you have to spend time teaching them not to. This applies equally to both genders...

Your son will only be a horrible little shit if you raise him that way.

YANBU. And i hate all this shit about 'boys will be boys' - what the hell does that even mean, that boys will be boy by virtue of being born genetically male and with a penis? BIZARRE!

To call 2 and 3 year olds horrible little shits and on the road to being murders and rapists for behaving as toddlers should do is quite worrying.

Many of them will have parents very new to parenting( they don't come with an instruction manual) and it will be their first peer social experience.Running around in a bigger space,experimenting with gross motor skills and shouting with excitement is what I'd expect and desire for my toddlers regardless of gender.

Before I had children I'd have said YANBU however my boy recently turned three. Get back to me once you've got a three year old son. Mine barely survived the weekend with me trying to curb the shitstorm of inappropriate behaviours that came our way. Yes, it has occurred to me that I'm just a shit parent.

Little boys are more lively. I used to think like you OP. Then I had a son.

These commnts are so cringy. FIrstly, you have a son. Not a science experiment, your case of one proves nothing. Secondly, your son, currenltly is being raised in a sexist society. You can't say that's nature not nurture.

I have two sons, one acts like a "typical boy" one is super sensitive and like to sit on his own and read. The 'typical boy' learned all the bastard behaviour from his older sister who could run rings around them all. So someone explain that to me?
Maybe I've just assumed their gender incorectly?

Your son will only be a horrible little shit if you raise him that way.

And I, for one, would love to be the flu on the wall to see how OPs glorious parenting turns out.

*fly

I know a little girl called Ottilie who's about 4, I've seen her for 2 years running around Caffè Nero completely unchecked. Round here the MC children don't seem to be parented as well as the WC children.

YADBU. Yes, some parenting can be poor at times, but that goes for both sexes.

It's awful to compare some badly behaved toddlers to future rapists and criminals. And what does their names have to do with anything? Clearly you are very hormonal.

I do agree that the attitude that its ok for boys to be boisterous is unhelpful, as is the attitude that girls should sit quietly and not run around. But children do have different energy levels and some are harder to get to behave than others. Ds1 is very quiet, placid and shy, ds2 is exhausting and constantly tests the boundaries. If your son is similar i certainly hope you dont always compare him unfavourably with his quiet more compliant sister. A lot of attributes like energy, determination, and risk-taking are hard work in children but will get you far as an adult. Dont value one personality type (regardless of gender) over another.

YANBU, what's tolerated in boys is stamped out in girls as "not nice behaviour"

This is true.

Back when DD was in After School Club there was a little boy who thought it funny to smack the other children. Staff never spoke to parents about it. They had the cheek to call me in one day saying DD had hit him. I arrived to find her shaking when I got there, he'd hit her 1st. & this was 1st time she'd hit back.

Their whole stance was that DD "can give as good as she gets could see that by way she slapped & pushed him".

Bastards. I gave them what for then removed her from ASC. DD is a petite slim girl, in her 20s now she's just 5ft.1. By 7 years old she'd already learned that when you're hurt as a girl/woman, don't ever retaliate. Boys are just boisterous aren't they. You're a girl - be nice.

DSis - same thing with her never told off her son it was always "somebody else's fault". Until one day at nursery he smacked a child dead centre in forehead with a metal toy car. & that child's parent (rightly) wouldn't let it go as "just boisterousness".

Of course not all boys are the same. But generally there's no admittance that boys are often treated differently as they're to be revered in some way. Society bears out the truth re results of this entitlement

A friend of mine was only boy amongst 4 sisters and says his parents treated him.like a "Demi-God". His term. He got away with murder, had to do less chores etc. Great at the time but now much older and not as close with his sisters as he'd like to be, he says his parents were so wrong.

It's nice when boys grow up polite etc. But the younger years behaviour when their boisterousness (those that are so) upsets and scares other children shouldn't be minimised.

: Boys are like dogs, you have to exercise them a lot

In my experience this is completely true. All my children have been patented the same, I don’t tolerate poor behaviour from any of them but my boys both needed to be let out for a run around twice a day or they went wild climbing the walls. DD enjoyed a run around as much as the boys but equally was just as happy to do stickers or drawing or play quietly of an afternoon where as both the boys would have got themselves into all sorts of scrapes and meltdowns if they hadn’t had a good run around. I think boys and girls do often have different needs and boys are often more physical. Mind you my boys are both now easy going chilled laidback children / teens but pre teen girls? A whole experience you can’t believe until you experience it. And it IS different to boys

Bollocks Mistress no nursery or school discipline/ behaviour/safe guarding policy states if a boy hits disregard and no setting can go against policies they've written.

We're also talking about toddlers not school age children.

I teach 11-16 & thankfully, although some stereotypes do exist, teenage boys absolutely DO come with a huge range of personalities OP !!!
There are quiet, loud, calm, boisterous, shy, confident, selfish, considerate, generous, helpful, unhelpful, gentle, rough, happy, unhappy, entitled, humble boys everywhere.
Some stereotypes I have noticed to be true and many share common traits.
Off the top of my head - They are often driven by their ego, competitive (even if not overtly) don't like talking about their feelings, confidence is fragile even if they are very loud & seem arrogant, show anger when they are sad or feeling threatened...
Many of the above can be said about girls too but not so extreme IME.

What worries me is that you are pregnant with a DS - did I read that right? You have a clearly set pre-conceived idea of what boys are like - all boys are the same, according to you, by the sounds of it. The murderer/rapist comment is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Look deeper, what's really up, OP? Were you hoping for another DD? Bad relationship with DH?

Boys are like dogs, you have to exericse them a lot.

Try that with my boys, both of them hate boisterousness, exercise, sweating or anything vigorous. However, both are in the feminist society at Uni and both will debate you into a corner about a variety of political and social topics. They talk a lot, and always have.

My daughters are both sporty, one was British Champion at her sport and the other teaches outdoor pursuits to children.

Lesson is 'all boys are/need/will ... ' is no more accurate than 'all girls are/want/do...' Each of your children are separate beings with their own preferences.

The problem isn't the kids it's the parents.

Look deeper, what's really up, OP? Were you hoping for another DD? Bad relationship with DH?

Depends on OP's experience of men and boys in life. If she's only ever come across the alpha-male type in her family and friendship group then she is NBU to wonder...

The

The "confident little boy" vs "bossy little girl" label for basically the same behaviours really sets the scene I think